Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

Oh dear #Scotishnonceparty is trendy on Twitter - the electorate really didn’t like idea of allowing sex offenders to apply for a GRC. That title may be hard to shake.

Ouch:

twitter.com/hashtag/scottishnonceparty?f=live

If anyone fancies it, The Rest Is Politics is asking for listeners to submit questions for their Q&A recording tomorrow.

You can send a question to them by replying to this Tweet twitter.com/restispolitics/status/1605633060925472778?s=46&t=BDMNR6gMn6lPzT6vYLN6kQ

Perhaps we should all ask them to comment on the SNP forcing through this legislation.

I've just said this to my DH. Steven Kerr making excellent points on concerns around freedom of belief.

Yes, and on law making.

The Scottish Tories do seem to be more politically aware, able, and astute than many of those heckling them.

I say this as a lifelong left voter.

For the 1st time ever I am glad my kids were born in England.

Plus, they're not attacking anyone.

Jamie Greene, for example, seems to have views in opposition to many in his own party as well as others (and mine, fwiw), but he's maintained a very respectful and calm demeanour throughout.

Telegraph:

archive.ph/0EGFL

Being a woman is not a ‘costume or a feeling’, Nicola Sturgeon warned

"It is understood that the UK Government is unlikely to recognise Scottish Gender Recognition Certificates (GRCs) as it does not believe in a self-identification model.

Feminist groups hinted that they were also prepared to take the Scottish Government to court in a bid to overturn the controversial system, should the UK Government decline to step in.
...

Ash Regan, an SNP politician <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/0EGFL/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/11/01/jk-rowling-backs-snp-rebel-nicola-sturgeons-trans-law-tug-of/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">who stood down as a minister to oppose the plann, told the rally outside Holyrood that being a woman was “not a costume, it’s not a feeling” but a “material reality grounded in biology”.

Speaking later in the Holyrood chamber, she told MSPs they must vote against the law if they believed there was any risk at all that it <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/0EGFL/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/18/predatory-sex-offenders-could-exploit-new-gender-recognition/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">would put women or girls at greater riskk.
She added that the Bill would introduce “a hierarchy of rights where women’s rights are being demoted”.

“If you have any doubt, any doubt at all that it will make women and girls less safe, then you cannot vote for it,” she urged her colleagues.
...

...Ms Cherry said.
“The women’s movement has been rejuvenated. Women have made common causes across party lines.

“With that cross-party support, we’re going to fight on against this Bill, we’re going to continue to stand up against the bullies who’ve tried to silence us.

“This ideology may have <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/0EGFL/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/09/sturgeons-trans-obsession-has-become-wild-crusade/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">captured powerful people in our countryy, but it’s not captured everyone. Public opinion is on our side.”

Meanwhile, Michael Foran, a lecturer in public law at the University of Glasgow, speculated that the UK Government could step in to block the law from coming into force.

He said there was a “distinct possibility” that conditions allowing British ministers to issue what is known as a Section 35 order, a never before used provision which <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/0EGFL/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/12/21/nicola-sturgeons-arrogance-ego-have-turned-devolution-downright/" rel="nofollow" target="blank">allows them to block Holyrood lawss, would be met."

Yes, it's a far more mature level of debate.

Saying this as a very disappointed Labour member.

Man speaking now - superb. Bit about bad law was outstanding.

Greens and Labour are the ones who've attacked, been aggressive and unpleasant.

Well. They've been defensive, in fact.

I had wondered whether the SNP government were hoping that the GRR Bill once enacted would show a moral superiority over Westminster which could be used as one of the levers to argue for independence. That would require enough of the public to nod along. I'm beginning to think that GRR might be more of a liability than an asset.

Shona Robison doesn't support gov having to report on the impact of the Bill.

Excellent argument from John Mason SNP regarding freedom of religion.

So ... they still have the following amendments to debate:

This is Group 16: Group 16: Operation and impact of the Act

Which includes a fair amount of disparate Amendments:

Impact of this Act on religious groups
Impact of this Act on Sport
European Convention on Human Rights

Then remaining three more Groups of Amendmetns:

Group 17: Gender identity healthcare
Group 18: Reporting
Group 19: Data collection

The impact on sport should be interesting. How could they not agree to any amendments that kept them sex only.

I've been listening to this yesterday evening and since about 3pm today and what I'm really struggling to wrap my head around is the SNP members who have stood up and eloquently explained the risks and concerns, the need for amendments. When asked 'ok so if your amendments are voted down will you vote for this bill to pass?' They still seemed to be saying that yes they would vote for it (although not actually saying it that definitively).

How do they square their obvious concerns for women's rights being ignored and make the morally corrupt decision to vote for a bill they think is bad to pass?

Please put any overnight pressure that you can on Labour and any likely waverers. They may be wobbling and there is still a faint chance.

Their careers are presumably on the line? They've been whipped to vote on this - and strongly pressured to vote down Amendments, it seems.

www.writetothem.com/

For any last minute emails ...

Also pig sick of Shona Robinson saying 'Gender' when talking about healthcare staff earlier, she kept saying things like 'if the gender of the staff member', if 'specific gender care'. I was screaming 'sex' in my head every single time. Can't scream out loud at the minute due to laryngitis.

How can Sarwar look his female relatives in the face? Isn't he a Muslim. Clearly a political operative first.

Just to reiterate what Arabella pointed out

‘ArabellaScott · Today 22:32
Shona Robison doesn't support gov having to report on the impact of the Bill.’

SR assures us there will be no impact, but refuses to collect the evidence to support/refute that
That would be the same SR who questions the importance of personal testimony without the support of evidence

Yes, waterwitch, the mental contortions must be exhausting...