Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

Amendments related to Equality Act coming up next.

J Balfour reminds us this is not Emergency legislation. Talking about delays, time taken. Cannot let Bill get rushed through. When will portfolio questions take place? Important that questions are asked today.

I know it's the SNP's MO to produce legislation and deal with problems later, but I find it utterly baffling that so many MSPs think it's OK to rush things without considering all angles. Legislation should be clear and precise, not rushed through and lacking in details. Apparently the SNP likes to include a clause that the Government can make changes to things without involving Parliament.

DH was telling me about an unrelated piece of legislation that he comes across often in his work. It was passed in 2016 but has yet to be implemented because they can't agree on the definition of a phrase the Scottish Government made up for that legislation. It has been 6 years, and it looks like they'll just scrap it because a new Bill is coming up that should cover it.

Yup all fine now - somehow the flood managed to trigger the fusebox, so we got plunged into darkness just to make everything more challenging. Nothing like the mess that Holyrood is about to create, though...

Amendments Group 13 - the concept of sex and single sex services. Equality Act.

Cab Sec (Shona Robison) -

Made v clear Scotparl cannot moderate the Eq Act.

We welcome outcome of JR for For Women Scotland.

But these remain live proceedings with possibility of appeal, I wont' therefore comment.

Rachel Hamilton - Cab Sec - if a GRC now confers some protections afforded by Eq Act, I wasn't allowed to debate - please confirm which protections are afforded and which are not

SR - no changes to any protections whatsoever - Lady Haldane was absolutely clear about this

Michelle Thomson - Roddy Dunlop KC makes point this clearly introduces considerable complexity on existing rights and practial funtion and effect on women has consisstently been ignored. This will be legally tested.

Roddy Dunlop KC is the Dean of the Faculty of Advocates so they should bloody well listen to him. They won't, though.

SR - rest of amendments

Following discussions Amendment 54 places duty on Ministers to publish guidance on operation of Act. Will do in consult with Human Rights orgs.

This is within the competence of this parliament.

Eq A is reserved to WM parliament.

Any amendments agreed today could put Bill at risk. We have a duty to make competent law.

I suspect this is going to get really technical on law issues, devolved issues, etc.

This is all probably the crux of it all tbh.

Political impilcations are probably huge.

Surely this puts the kibosh on sturgeon's plan to get a cushy sinecure at the UN or similar, what with those outfits not known for employing nutters?

SR cannot support any Amendments in this section apart from her own.

Stephen Kerr - anxious to know in clear terms - will Cab Sec confirm someone with a GRC would have acces to single sex spaces

SR - not if org used exceptions under EA

SR this bill changes nothing wrt single sex exceptions

mobile.twitter.com/LucyHunterB

thread worth reading!

But Lady Haldane ruled that 'sex' for the purposes of the EA means legal sex, not just biological sex. If you have a GRC you have changed your legal sex. And the GR Bill will mean anyone, including sex offenders, can change their legal sex.

So of course it changes the protections. It essentially renders the 'sex' section of the EA meaningless.

This doesn't make sense?

SR - EHRC must provide guidance, not Scottish Govt, re affect on EA

[they're just passing every buck they find, aren't they?]

Claire Baker - EHRC said gov must provide guidance and clarity

SR - in terms of EA, it's for EHRC to lead

None of it makes sense.

You can still exclude non-women from single sex spaces as before.

But people with a GRC are now legally women. So you can't actually exclude them.

So did Rachael Hamilton's manuscript amendment not get allowed? I am in total shock that the SG can't see that the Haldane ruling DOES change the impact of the Bill. I also think that the well meaning amendment by Labour at Stage 2 is now devastating.

If EHRC want to revise their guidance in light of this Bill, then we'd respect that

[crikey]

not allowed, no

Pam Duncan-Glancy - EHRC - recognition that protocols would need to be in place to provide services - on that basis, surely Scotgov should provide guidance to help orgs how to deliver services

SR - that's different from the operation of the EA - the EHRC are the statutory body and have to lead on that. We will work with them, but they have to be the lead body.

My understanding was that as a person has layers of different characteristics you can pick them apart so by including all "women" you get female humans plus male humans minus any female humans that hold a GRC 😵‍💫 but you can then exclude any of those "women" who hold a GRC so it removes the male humans

But it's not possible to make a group of all female humans because any female GRC holders would be excluded.

Whole thing is ridiculous

SR on Amendment from Ash Regan -

Bill doesn't amend effect of GRC - same as 2004.

she's going really fast, I can't keep up with it, sorry!

SR - as I've said - Bill already says that this Bill doesn't modify the EA in any way

to pick it apart in this way causes confusion

intervention - if obtiaining a GRC means a man is a woman, then what is the basis for excluding that person from a single sex space?

Much heckling.

The mind boggles-why on earth Scottish Parliament are tying themselves in knots debating this, when we all know humans cannot change sex. Pretending that they can has got us into this mess!