Scottish Parliament final debate on Gender Recognition Reform today

[ArabellaScott]

At some point after 2pm, in the Big Room (the Chamber).

www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

Will be interesting to see how the Amendments go down, if they are all struck down as the ScotGov wishes - www.holyrood.com/news/view,gender-recognition-reform-crunch-vote-after-shona-robison-warns-msps-over-amendments

'the Scottish Conservatives have warned that the debate could lead to a "travesty of democracy" because a 15 minute time limit for each proposal will "shut down" discussion.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64032916

Scotland - where safeguarding is a hate crime

I will never forgive them & I will never ever forget

What are the proposed consequences for trying to operate a women only single sex service that excludes a male convicted sex offender?

TBH there are so many things that have been ignored, skimmed, not looked at, not covered, not explained. I think this is one of them.

Surely given that the sex offender will have a GRC saying they are a woman then then anyone refusing them entry will be in breach of the EA because the other ruling was that they are a woman! Madness!

Exactly? This whole thing is nuts!

As it stands, as it is about to go through considering the Bill and the court ruling together, then in theory a women's refuge which uses the exemptions in the EA to ensure a 'single sex' service, would still have to accept a convicted male sex offender who has obtained a GRC?

terrible explanation- had to deal with washing machine flooding the kitchen half way through

Derail, but I'm sorry to hear that, HopRockers. Hope it doesn't cause problems over the Christmas holidays - just went through it ourselves and took a few days to get sorted out. (Turned out we had our very own fatberg in the waste pipe the washing machine shares with the kitchen sink.)

Only two years to go until a GE. I can feel the anger and fury. Surely NS has squandered any hope of leading Scotland to independence now.

Right; but safeguarding says staff can google for a record of conviction and exclude on that basis. Or exclude while checks are being made for the purpose of safeguarding, yes?
This is the kind of workaround we have to look for.

If the SO is legally a woman in all ways, as Lady Haldane ruled, then you couldn't discriminate against they for their sex. Because their sex is 'female', legally.

So I guess it would be discriminating against them for their 'gender reassignment', but I don't understand how, if they have become entirely female, they are still covered by that 'gender reassignment' clause. It's a done thing, they no longer have any other sex to have transitioned from.

IA [obviously] NAL.

What I mean is, the GRC is a red herring. Safeguarding means they can exclude and refer to another service on the basis of a conviction.

I want us to find a number of elder sisters of wealthy Scottish families, where the rules say that eldest son inherits any estate in entirity. For them to identify as male, and then bring a court case to overturn progeniture rules. Because the Scottish government cant have it both ways. And if they refuse, then it shows that they KNOW its all a lie. And if it looks like succseeding then you can be damn sure that any self ID laws are going to be overturned at the speed of light.
Men are happy to give away womens rights for lesser men, but they are not prepared to give away mens rights.

Is the meeting currently suspended? Or actually happening-if happening pls could someone post a link-many thanks

The net effect of Lady Haldanes ruling is that Trans women really are actual women.

So those individuals can now claim the protected characteristic of being a women, but they can't be considered 'trans' anymore.

So an all woman shortlist could be all (actual) women, or all (used-to-be-men) women.

And an all-trans shortlist? No such thing.

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-december-21-2022

Still suspended I think

Thank you that's awfully kind. Fortunately just a reusable period pad that managed to get 90% of the way through the drain part within the machine (who knew! I've been using them for years I suppose I should be putting them in a net bag or something 🙈) but retrieved now.

Hope your kitchen has recovered!

They aren't happy... twitter.com/pickle_bee/status/1605594701679034368?s=20&t=h1daEM68W4LchXCaiMSm1w

But all the stuff being discussed on this page is stuff that surely needs to be discussed and debated in parliament before any bill goes through?

I don't get how this has apparently taken 6 years, we keep being told by TRAs that 'of course its not being rushed through', but fundamental things are just being glossed over? This isn't how a government should work is it?

Thanks Birds

Latest BBC update is that there is some "disquiet" that Conservative MSPs are actually making them discuss issues in the Bill. What about disquiet at the unseeming haste of pushing through in a rush what isn't emergency legislation?

I thought you could say something was for all (legal) women BUT exclude those who have a GRC? But no one does

Back.

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/meeting-of-the-parliament-december-21-2022

They're going to fucking ignore it, aren't they? They'll break all their own rules. Fuckers.

I continue to be amazed that the SNP (with a few exceptions) seem to be content to make the Conservatives look like the only grown ups in the chamber

But in Scotland a court has ruled that 'sex' for the purposes of the EA doesn't just mean biological sex, it can also mean legal sex ie. Someone with a GRC.

Which massively changes the EA meaning of 'sex' and 'single sex' in reality.

That's how I understand it, I'm happy to be corrected.