How Long Before We Look Back In Amazement

[TheShellBeach]

..................over the fact that we had to go through all the transwankery. That we had to fight and fight over such an issue. That some men were allowed to do this to us. That even a lot of women could not see the harm this was causing women and girls.

I mean, surely there will come a time when we can look back and say "I remember that - it was awful - thank goodness people saw through it eventually." How long will it be?

Hi @Waitwhat23 I also have a lot of experience working with female prisoners. Again, if I was to make a list of the most significant breaches of their dignity, privacy, autonomy and human rights (and there are many) it would have to be a long piece of paper before I reached transgender issues.

Women in prison have actual issues surrounding access to medical care, legal representation, interpreters, disability support, being punished for being mentally ill or poor or addicted, untreated trauma, losing access to housing or their children, access to period products, access to counselling, a lack of genuine attempts to rehabilitate, being bullied and demeaned by corrections officers... I could go on. Yet people on these boards never seem to mention anything except the incredibly small number of trans people in prison, the vast majority of whom aren't violent.

It's funny how people suddenly care about prisoners when they can use them. Because I've been advocating for prisoners for over a decade and it's very hard to get anyone to give a damn. When was the last time you or anyone you know donated to support prisoners? Or voted for a candidate that said they would be softer on crime and focus on supporting diversion and rehabilitation instead?

Yet on these threads, I'm meant to believe that you're all laying awake at night worried about women in prison. Sure.

Interesting post

Personally I think until the nation turns back to God in significant numbers, that all sorts of things will not stop.

OP I hope you are right. My 10 year old is totally confused by all the new language by the way. He has an online 'girlfriend' who apparently is 'gender fluid' and has a willy (I know I am keeping an eye on that and the computer is in the living room). But anyone he thought that 'gender fluid' meant that her genitals actually change from day to day. I am a bit of a loss to explain in a concrete way what gender fluid actually does mean.....

Yet on these threads, I'm meant to believe that you're all laying awake at night worried about women in prison. Sure.

Again, the wearily predictable assumption that women who are concerned about women being housed with convicted male sex offenders are not also concerned about the other issues which female prisoners face. Many of us work in sectors which attempt to address the societal issues which vulnerable women face as well as having concerns about the issues which occur in prisons which continue to perpetuate inequalities for those women. And we try to vote for political parties which will help vulnerable women on a societal level, including policies which try to use other methods apart from placing these women in the prison system.

I'm just also concerned with these vulnerable women also being housed with convicted male sex offenders (who are both statistically over-represented and pose a harm to women) due to the SPS's deliberate policy, which is in part due to institutional capture in Scotland.

Strangely enough, many feminists have many and varied areas of concerns which they take interest in, read about and take action (writing to MSP's, donating etc.

Interesting post thank you

I agree on all points and that interesting

Going back to the op I’ll be glad when that term is dropped completely.

"Corrections officers". Yes we have those here.

To go back to the OP, I will cheer when this regressive, homophobic, misogynistic, child endangering agenda is gone or at The very least falls right out of fashion.

I believe it's really dependent on what happens in the near future. The amount of young people who detransistion- a massive amount +court cases will make it impossible for anyone to ignore.(If the NHS ends up making huge payouts etc).

And horribly, if predatory men take advantage & women & girls are hurt, this, I've come to realise, will depend on numbers & a woman or girl the popular press can care enough to incensed about.
I'm so sad writing the above, but it's true, it will be an English rose, "Just using the toilet, changing room etc etc etc", that opens eyes to what women have been saying.
It's not men who call themselves trans, it's the predators who call themselves trans. And we have no way of distinguishing between these groups.
North America? I have no idea if or when it will end there. And I feel for parents, women trying to fight it. Hold tight Sisters.

rape crisis services, prisons, single sex hospital wards etc.

And women's refuges of course, there's already been trouble through that, though not that I know about in the UK yet.

Women in prison have actual issues surrounding access to medical care,

So Rhona Hotchkiss is wrong and putting men in women's prisons doesn't matter? She's a retired prison governor and in her job she saw it making a serious difference. Is she mistaken, and this doesn't make prison any worse for women?

Because I've been advocating for prisoners for over a decade and it's very hard to get anyone to give a damn.

Yes, that is part of the problem, people don't give a damn about women in prison, in fact Helen Joyce said the same in one of her interviews.

But having said that - no-one much seems to care about women in hospitals or women who need intimate physical care either, which I find more surprising. What made me realise that this had to stop was was the shock of hearing that not only was a woman raped in hospital by a transwoman patient, but the hospital blocked the police investigation for months because there was no "man" on the ward. (Reported by Baroness Nicolson to the House of Lords)

Though I kind of agree with you in that I don't think concerns about women will bring this down. If anything can brings this down it's the physical harm that the ideology is doing to children and young people. It's the opposite of tolerance for difference, one of the underpinnings for this is pushing children and adolescents into devastating medical solutions to their social and psychological problems. Or not even their own problems, just things the adults around them think are a problem.

You are lucky to be in the privileged position of believing you are unaffected by any of this.

I am lucky my kids weren’t the ones to encounter 6’5” sex offender Katie Dolatowski in the supermarket toilets.

I am lucky I wasn’t the woman raped on a UK hospital ward and told it didn’t happen as there were no ‘men’ on the ward.

I am lucky I grew up in a time where I could wear ‘men’s clothes’ and crop my hair short without anyone suggesting puberty blockers or testosterone shots.

I am lucky my own kids are not distressed and being lied to that transition is the solution to all their problems.

And I’m lucky there are still people willing to fight for the rights of the many other vulnerable groups who are impacted if all places become effectively mixed sex.

Caroline Criado Perez highlighted the harm caused to women by the lack of sex disaggregated data in ‘Invisible Woman.’

Even if you believe you’re not personally affected, whenever you repeat the lie that male people are female, you’re contributing to an environment which actively harms women. Lies are told, accurate data remains uncollected, women suffer.

Same here. Some of these posts are trying to stop women caring but it’s not going to work.

What these posts never succeed in doing is to persuade me not to care about children being put on a medical pathway that will result in them being sterilised and not having any sexual function.

Yes but nauticant there’s so many more important issues. The sterilisation of children isn’t even in the top 100 things that you should be concerning yourself with and unless you campaign actively for all those other 100 things you have no right whatsoever to have an opinion on this.

Do better.

I think the reason a lot of us are making a noise about this issue is because it's incredibly easy to do something about it.

Not letting men enter women's sports, or women's prisons is one of the easiest things in the world. In terms of cost-benefit analysis, it's off the charts.

Lobbying and generating public pressure to get politicians to do something they can trivially do and know how to is probably more productive than lobbying to get them to solve some more abstract problem.

The deliberate cruelty of having the power to fix this and either not fixing it or making it worse really gets to some of us. I don't believe any politician can "end child poverty", so whereever that stat is, you can wish it was better, but can't ultimately pin the blame totally on anything specific.

But if a women is sexually assaulted in prison, that was 100% preventable, and people like Sturgeon are 100% responsible.

And the fact that so many people are willing to let 100% preventable things happen for political expediency is utterly chilling.

It's always a focus on 'they just want to pee!!!!'

And going back to this - what men can do in women's toilets is not 100% preventable, unlike what men can do in women's prisons, but you can certainly avoid creating an environment where men feel entitled to act badly in them. Two recent examples:

reduxx.info/respect-me-trans-identified-male-screams-at-female-student-after-being-confronted-in-womens-washroom/
reduxx.info/trans-student-charged-after-reportedly-assaulting-two-female-students-in-school-washroom/

Now, would those incidents have occurred without these men being encouraged in their feelings of entitlement to women, and aggression to non-compliant women? Quite likely not.

And they are still encouraged after it happens - from the first one:

In an interview with the student, TV Globo suggested he was the victim of transphobia, which they described as “a form of prejudice against transsexual people that can result in physical, moral or psychological violence.”

The trans-identified male student gave a statement, saying: “I felt extremely offended, I was being exposed, I was being humiliated by a person who was filming me. I ran to try to take her cell phone, and I lost control. But no one should go through this just because they want to use the bathroom.”

The issue also is that there is laws being made or changed right now. There are lessons being taught to our children right now. There are children going through gender clinics right now or on the waiting list or getting prescriptions from GenderGP. And there is guidance across many streams from Rape Crisis, to sports being written and amended right at this moment.

The attempt to narrow the focus to one single impact of a poster’s choosing is a distraction to all the other impacts that are happening even this month.

So some people don’t prioritise it, some people don’t recognise the significance because it doesn’t impact their life right now. How wonderful for those posters that they are not being impacted and I hope they remained unimpacted.

It won’t distract many others on this thread and in real life though.

Even if I didn't care about any other women (which I do), I am still a mother and a daughter.

The health board my mother lives in has said that she doesn't have a right to a female only ward.

A neighbouring health board has said that any female complaining be treated like a rapist and removed.

This is not just a man peeing in the ladies.

This is impacting women wherever they are vulnerable.

Personally I think until the nation turns back to God in significant numbers, that all sorts of things will not stop.

I think this might be the case. But God is dead, what can we do. Atheist here

Lots of countries only haves mixed gender wards 😐

My aunt on a mixed ward.
they all have one thing In Common
They are all very bloody poorly and in need of medical help.

No one gives a hoot who they’re next to, as long as they’re quiet!

A neighbouring health board has said that any female complaining be treated like a rapist and removed.

could you link to the statement and identify the health board you’re referring to

My 10 year old is totally confused by all the new language by the way. He has an online 'girlfriend' who apparently is 'gender fluid' and has a willy (I know I am keeping an eye on that and the computer is in the living room). But anyone he thought that 'gender fluid' meant that her genitals actually change from day to day. I am a bit of a loss to explain in a concrete way what gender fluid actually does mean.....

I can't work out if this is real or not but I respectfully suggest monitoring online activity more closely or even better, restricting it altogether

Start parenting

Stop your 10 year old engaging in this nonsense online

FGS