How feminists have let down Muslim women and girls

[beastlyslumber]

This is a brilliant conversation with Yasmine Mohammed, talking about how liberal feminism has betrayed women and girls, what the wearing of hijab really means for girls, how women are being enslaved and tortured by Sharia law. And why feminists need to start caring.

open.spotify.com/episode/4yNPedvPGE2lZ4uPtYViot

That's the spotify link. I'll link it on apple music as well: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e208-yasmine-mohammed-discusses-how-western-liberals/id1437447846?i=1000587384528

Hopefully one of those links will work for you!

Yasmine Mohammed, author of Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam , shares her story of growing up in a fundamentalist Islamic home in Canada. At 13, when she tried to report the abuse she suffered at the hands of her step-father, she was told by a judge “you come from a different culture, and that’s how your family chooses to discipline you, so we just have to accept that.”

And here lies the inherent contradiction in the way in which the West views fundamentalist Islam versus other fundamentalist religions, and turns a blind eye to the abuse and suffering of millions of girls and women. She and Bridget discuss how alienating that is, the message those girls receive is “we don’t care about you, you are ‘other.'”

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture, and being called Islamophobic for criticizing a tool and system of oppression. They bond over shared traumatic experiences and discuss their belief that if you can use your own trauma to help others, it has not happened in vain. If you only ever listen to one episode of Walk-Ins Welcome, this is the episode.

That's really interesting.

It's still women though.

Yes, it was so much more common when I was a kid though. I know that my daughter is friends with the one Hindu in her class, and she is always complaining about her religion and how she doesn’t believe in it. I wonder if Hinduism in the decline in the UK. Or maybe just London.

Did you see a tilak or a bindi?

The tilak is the red dye right?

Is the bindi the one you glue on?

To be fair, I very rarely see either.

@NonnyMouse1337
'The true nature of any ideology is in how it treats its dissidents, and not necessarily those that comply with its rules and regulations.'

You've summed it up perfectly!

@EndlessTea so what's the difference between you and a religious constitution?

You're saying women shouldn't wear a hijab or dress modestly, and Islam is saying they should.

If religion is backwards for women's rights, then so are you.

I’m about 45 minutes in atm and these women almost sound like mumsnetters.

I’m saying the notion of ‘modesty’ for women is old fashioned, backwards and intertwined with women’s oppression. Funnily enough, in the podcast they do touch on that - about the dualistic nature of ‘modesty’ and it’s stark opposite ‘immodesty’. How one is virtuous and deserves respect and the other is shameful, unclean and deserves to be treated as ‘asking for it’.

I had the same thought!

I am disappointed that the organisation she set up for ex-Muslims seems to say very little about women and is focused on men (gay men). https://www.freeheartsfreeminds.com/ Fuck me, after what she’s been through, why not put women first? The spectre of Beryl.

I hear you @Emmmie and @CleanTheChicken

Why don't Muslim men feel the need to express their faith in the same way? And btw most Muslim women around the world don't wear a hijab, burkha etc. What's your opinion of those women? Why should only women cover up?

I didn't realise that. That's a shame. From the general conversation I assumed it would be aimed more at helping women.

I think Maryam Namazie focuses on women in her work. I'll have to check now.

It looks like there are quite a few women giving testimonials.

@Samjamm
with regards to communication the hijab is fine compared to the burka and niqab.
with regards to modesty all three are oppressive as such, because it is only the girls that must dress modestly.
it sexualises young girls and puts the responsibility of men’s sexuality on the girls.
It makes a split between the females who are «honourable and those who are «up for grabs», as discussed on another thread.
To put it like this:
I am not responsible for men unable to control their bodily urges simply because they glimpse a strand of my hair. If they cannot behave rational without the women around them being fully covered they should not be allowed out and about.

I thought about modesty clothing and in a way the bra can also have that function of ensuring modesty. Not only, I know many women need the support.
But I don’t need to wear a bra for support but must wear one so that my nipples are covered under tops/jumpers etc. The men in my classes would otherwise be completely distracted.
This has been tested out in other settings - and it does rile me. It has also been tested out by other women I know.
I don’t need or like to wear a bra, but I suppose the societal pressure is too big for me to not wear one. Especially at work where I teach males.

Yes, I thought they had bans in France.
I meant the body covering is not problematic for facial recognition and communication.
it is still problematic related to the modesty issue.

I don’t think I agree with the tankini ban though. But I do think it is very important to talk about these clothes and religious rules on covering up. Especially as it most often seems to limit the freedom of choice for girls.

Yes - I’d like to understand why men don’t also have to wear the hijab or niqab or other similar items. Can anyone please explain that to me? Why do these items only apply to women and girls?

In the podcast Yasmine Mohammed keeps bringing up the cover of Sports Illustrated being fêted for featuring a woman in a hijab and burkini on the cover, saying that if they featured Mormon underwear on the cover, people would be “wtf?” and it is the fear of being called islamophobic, which means women and girls who are restricted in this way aren’t benefiting from liberal criticisms, instead they are othered.

Is it mormonphobic of me that I thought their underwear was very funny? I may have snorted just a bit. 😂
mind you, I am no fashion icon and at least they have the rule for both sexes.

It is not islamophobic to ask why the hijab, niqab and burka only applies to girls.

@DianaTroy I would also very much like to hear answers to these questions,

I know. I added a link to show how Mormon underwear is oppressive for women because it is itchy, uncomfortable and unbreathable and causes UTIs, etc. So the blokes aren’t as badly affected because they don’t have vaginal health to think about.

@EndlessTea is it polyester?
well, in that case I certainly agree it is oppressive for women. Re vaginal health - very important point.

They have to sleep in it as well

Yes, there’s clearly a need, but you can tell that Beryl kept driving the WAMbulance into every damn planning meeting.

It’s like a reflex isn’t it? Women are almost incapable of putting ourselves first. It is so hard to stay focused on women’s needs in a meeting, “what about men?”, “oh yes, men do suffer too”, “I agree, let’s include men”, “yes I too know men have neglected needs”, “as do I, men, men, men, menny, men”, “so the home page of this website, what should it say on the first page?”, “well let’s not forget that some men suffer far more than women”, “hard agree, let’s prioritise men on the home page then”, ~ a fuzzy, warm feeling ensues as all the women planning and organising contemplate all the good they are going to do for men in the world ~.

The host of the podcast even complained about #MeToo going too far and implied that Western women are just whining now, compared to the oppression faced by women elsewhere in the world. Then closes off as a postscript crying about the drugged assault she suffered at nineteen, which changed the course of her life and led her into addiction, promiscuity and intimacy issues that have dogged her ever since.

To be honest, I also see the reflex “we need to prioritise marginalised women in ethnic minority communities”, whenever women’s issues are concerned as a similar deflection. It’s so hard to say “I am a woman and I am going to focus women’s needs- because being a woman is enough”.