How feminists have let down Muslim women and girls

[beastlyslumber]

This is a brilliant conversation with Yasmine Mohammed, talking about how liberal feminism has betrayed women and girls, what the wearing of hijab really means for girls, how women are being enslaved and tortured by Sharia law. And why feminists need to start caring.

open.spotify.com/episode/4yNPedvPGE2lZ4uPtYViot

That's the spotify link. I'll link it on apple music as well: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e208-yasmine-mohammed-discusses-how-western-liberals/id1437447846?i=1000587384528

Hopefully one of those links will work for you!

Yasmine Mohammed, author of Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam , shares her story of growing up in a fundamentalist Islamic home in Canada. At 13, when she tried to report the abuse she suffered at the hands of her step-father, she was told by a judge “you come from a different culture, and that’s how your family chooses to discipline you, so we just have to accept that.”

And here lies the inherent contradiction in the way in which the West views fundamentalist Islam versus other fundamentalist religions, and turns a blind eye to the abuse and suffering of millions of girls and women. She and Bridget discuss how alienating that is, the message those girls receive is “we don’t care about you, you are ‘other.'”

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture, and being called Islamophobic for criticizing a tool and system of oppression. They bond over shared traumatic experiences and discuss their belief that if you can use your own trauma to help others, it has not happened in vain. If you only ever listen to one episode of Walk-Ins Welcome, this is the episode.

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture

For too long we've just abandoned them to their fate
Why are you blaming women for men's actions?

A great doco if you can find it is "Me and the Mosque". It's Canadian and really insightful.

Thanks - I'll have a look.

Thanks also to the pp who posted the Sarah Haider video. There are some good resources around.

I'm not.

I agree. That podcast is powerful stuff. But people on here will shout you down as racist like they do on the other threads on here.

This is so important and so true. Sage words indeed. I was thinking just yesterday about how you experience a completely different journey through your day if you comply with patriarchal gender norms or if you don’t. I find that by being averse to wearing make up, dresses, etc, I am definitely treated with mistrust. My brother once said words to the effect that if I made the effort, more doors would open up to me.

When, in the (long ago) past I would do the make up, skirts, curled my hair, or whatever, I would get a very different response from others - everyone would be friendlier and warmer. I just can’t stand doing it, so I live with being treated with mistrust and banging on closed doors 😂. I know this is an odd comparison, since it is much more subtle than the topic of this thread.

Anyway, I want to quote you again:

The true nature of any ideology is in how it treats its dissidents, and not necessarily those that comply with its rules and regulations.

Many of the women in the Islamic Republic of Iran would seem to agree with Jasmine. They are being killed, assaulted and jailed in their fight for freedom and equality and removing the hijab seems to be quite a potent symbol of their defiance.

Women, and more specifically feminists, have many conversations about whether our life choices are made freely or are informed by social, political, religious and economic pressures. This particular conversation just happens to be about the hijab and is lead by a Muslim woman. There will be a range of views whatever the subject under discussion.

We cannot abandon Muslim women and girls under the guise of religious tolerance and liberalism.

In spades. This whole 'you are other and I don't care about you' is extended too to women with Autism, with disabilities, with trauma, with abuse, with other faiths and cultures, basically any woman who doesn't fit in to the personal politics and agenda.

I don't care if some women in those groups are fine and progressive and have no problems, because some do. And it's my responsibility as a woman to care about those women, and to ensure they have the same access and inclusion and voice and services as every male does.

Cannot agree with this more.

I don't care id people call me a racist, I think they subscribe to a deeply racist ideology themselves.

But I do have real doubts that it is either fair, reasonable, or a good idea, to speak as if all Muslim women who wear a hijab, or have some other standard Islamic beliefs, are from "fundamentalist" backgrounds, or are being oppressed by fundamentalism.

I'd also point out that the pusing down of adult dress practices and conventions on children, and especially girl children, has been going on in many western nations. Partly because of a strong awareness of children being sexualized. For example it used to be common when I was a child for babies, toddler, and even somewhat older children, to go naked, or wear underpants at the beach, or for girls to not wear a top at the beach. Similarly children often changed in the open. The idea was that as pre-sexual beings there was no reason to cover in the way adults do.

The idea that children can be subject to sexualizing forces, and need protection, isn't unique to Islam.

I think anyone who puts their infant and young girls into hijab is fundamentalist. After listening to this discussion I think it's really, really wrong.

But no one has said it's all Muslims. And no one has said that dodgy practices like this are unique to Islam. Did you listen to the discussion, Mangy?

I learnt recently that women who wear hijabs are not all muslims or from muslim countries. I met a group a women a few months back who I assumed were muslim because they wore hijabs but recently found out that they are Catholics from a Christian African country and it's the norm there for women to wear hijabs too.

So what? Just because she's a Muslim she's an expert on what Muslim women need?

There isnt just one view on these matters though.

The issue in Iran isn’t against hijab. Women are removing their hijabs in protest because the current regime is using ‘hijab / morality offences’ to punish and kill female radicals who come from families that don’t support the establishment. Iran has always punished hijab and moral offences harshly, but there are political motivations behind some of this reporting.

It was always the norm for all Christian / Muslim and Jewish women to wear hijabs. And in the countries with the oldest Christian / Jewish traditions they still do.

I was so moved by what YM said about hijab, how it psychologically affected her. Also her explanations of what girls are told - do you want to be a good clean girl, or a dirty girl? Do you want to go to heaven or hell? The way it separates girls from their peers. The idea that it's not really a choice if you can't choose not to wear it.

I know I sound like a broken record, but please do listen to the discussion. It's very interesting. And while YM obviously can't speak for all Muslim women, her experience is valuable and she is part of a much bigger community of women asking people to listen and pay attention.

I was going to add this too.
All three Abrahmic (? Spelling) religions are rather about patrilinear heritage and not very women-friendly on the whole.
Reading the old testament it is rather fascinating how a whole Row of men «begat» the next generation of men. Women feature very rarely, and as we well know it is only fairly recently that women in Europe can enjoy economic and political freedom and independence on a large scale.
It is not that long ago it was mandatory for women to cover their hair in church (and for decorum elsewhere too).

But that aside: no, it is not «islamophobic» to point out very problematic aspects of the religion.
The hijab, burka and niqab ARE problematic. Forced covering up IS problematic - especially when forced on children.
Aside from everything else it causes severe vitamin D deficiency in the female population in countries with Sun almost every day of the year.

Some women are perfectly happy to wear the hijab for spiritual reasons just like some women are perfectly happy to not be able to vote.
However, if they do not extend the choice to those who do not want to wear the hijab, or to those who do want to be able to vote - then we are not talking about choice and freedom anymore. Are we?

I want the choice and freedom. If others do not want the choice or freedom for themselves, crack on. But they cannot also take my choice and freedom away, to justify their own choice.

Too right they have

So many posters on here are going "but you cant speak for all mus lim women".
Soooo does not let feminists off the hook.
Excuses just dont wash.

The hijab, burkha and niqab are NOT problematic. It's an expression of faith and brings peace to most of us that wear it. Being forced to wear one however IS problematic. But at the same time, being forced to NOT wear one is also problemtic. Will the feminists who are on this thread standing up for the women who are forced to wear a hijab also stand up for the women in countries where the hijab and niqab are banned?

I won't be wasting two hours of my time listening to the woman who added a negative spin to a positive day by founding #NoHijabDay. I understand that she's had a tragic life and I'm sure she feels like her hatred is justified. But my love for my religion and its practices are also justified and I won't be patronised into thinking differently. Support her and women like her, but know that it's not so black and white as there are women like me who proudly where the hijab despite being sneered at, judged and even pitied by uninformed people.

Only those who wish to wear the hijab should wear it. A woman who does not has every right not to. There is nothing in the Koran that says anything except modest dress. The hijab is the construction of men, mainly insecure men, I think, and those who want to blame their own inadequacies (and indeed sins) on women.

Thanks for posting op.

It is problematic if it normalises different standards of supposed ‘modesty’ for women and men. How many men wear the hijab, burkha or niqab to express their faith and bring them peace? Why is that?