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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Kellie-Jay's New Political Party

1000 replies

TheBadLuckOfTeelaBrown · 07/12/2022 13:34

I can't see a thread on this, but she is starting a new party and will run in elections.

twitter.com/StandingforXX/status/1600235830475653123?s=20&t=hhlXpo7uErB4FlkFj1nSRA

www.theotherparty.co.uk

OP posts:
Thread gallery
41
LangClegsInSpace · 09/12/2022 19:43

WomaninBoots · 09/12/2022 18:39

Someone asked you for "your political party" and you responded with links to WPUK. Not a political party and not, now you say, yours.

If you think that KJK is going to do so much damage being at the forefront of this movement might I suggest that all you lovely, proper feminists GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND GO AND PUT YOURSELVES AT THE FOREFRONT INSTEAD THEN!!!

If you care that much that you are willing to spend hours and hours scouring her output to find all your evidence. Put that energy into representing YOUR take on it. Out there, publicly, taking all the flak, all the hate, all the threats, all the doxxing etc etc. Getting all your nice left wing women who are sooooooooo terrified of Being Bad People on side, mobilising them, giving then a voice. Will your left wing men overlords let them speak? Do you think? Can you manage to also engage with ordinary women? Because the left currently have a very bad track record of engaging with "the masses". Are you going to overcome that?

Go on then. Stop pissing around smearing KJK. Let her crack on. If you're so much better as a figure at the forefront with your perfect principles. Go on. Get on with it.

Well said!

Happylittlechicken · 09/12/2022 19:44

@Onnabugeisha are you therefore postulating we make all spaces mixed sex as men are going to rape women anyway? Do you wear a seatbelt when you go out in a car? If so, why? There’s dangerous drivers and hazards out there so why bother wearing a seatbelt? Do you lock your door when you leave the house? Why? Burglars are gonna burgle so why bother trying to keep them out?

Datun · 09/12/2022 19:47

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 17:10

Good grief Onnabugeisha.
Maybe it's time to talk to somebody about your feelings about KJK?

It's her hair! I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This platinum blonde, varnished, lipsticked woman drives these people mad

These posters aren't feminists. They're not WPUK feminists, either. They are transactivists.

Obsessed with a woman they are both jealous of, and hate for her success.

Mouseum · 09/12/2022 19:49

Helen Joyce said she would not work with ADF in the US because they were powerful there but she would in the UK because they are extremely fringe here and only get a platform on other people's terms.

I'm more wary of the ADF UK than Helen Joyce (although I don't know her stance on abortion), it was only yesterday they lost this battle in the Supreme Court

news.yahoo.com/uk-high-court-rules-pro-173308218.html

The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has ruled it legal to ban pro-life demonstrations and advocacy from the perimeter of abortion clinics.

The Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) Northern Ireland Bill would legalize "buffer" zones around abortion clinics that would prohibit the presence of pro-life groups or demonstrators within 328 feet of an abortion provider.

"Peaceful presence, mere conversation, quiet or silent prayer — these activities should never be criminalized in a democratic society like the U.K.," said Alliance Defending Freedom legal counsel Jeremiah Igunnubole.

"Northern Ireland’s broadly drafted law hands arbitrary power to police officers, with the inevitable consequence being the unjust arrest and prosecution of those expressing pro-life views, even though such views are protected under domestic and international human rights law," Igunnubole added.

LangClegsInSpace · 09/12/2022 19:49

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 09/12/2022 18:45

it's ever so kind of the monomaniacs to do so much PR for KJK

this thread must have been in active all day. Any MN user who doesn't know KJK is starting a political party by now must really not be paying attention

So true. Thank you, obsessed people Flowers

Bump

Moonatics · 09/12/2022 20:00

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 17:27

@beastlyslumber
Or do you claim it's only women who are influenced by standing near people with different political views to them?
No one has claimed that. And really you should stop making up wild accusations when you have said you are not even reading any of the evidence we have posted here as to KJKs unsuitability for public office.

If unsuitability was a barrier to public office we would literally have no one in public office. None of us is completely blameless.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 20:05

Such a revealing thread. When I posted about the lack of impact WPUK has had on shoring up women's rights / child safeguarding in contrast to all the other women's groups & individuals I did wonder whether I was being a bit unfair.
But, if we take at face value that these KJK obsessors are involved with WPUK as claimed, then the ineffectiveness of the WPUK is explained. Just like the sad old WEP, they're completely in thrall to the MRA movement - unable to centre women or work collaboratively with any women who doesn't submit to the overlords.
Just as the Brighton baby screamer chillingly demonstrated how some women can abuse even a baby if it's demanded by this male led movement, so this thread showcases another captured organisation that ends up working against women.

WomaninBoots · 09/12/2022 20:07

Dear goddess, the nation voted for Boris Johnson! No'one is going to be wringing their hands about KJK.

No-one who isn't snorting the fumes of their own self-righteousness anyway.

OldCrone · 09/12/2022 20:19

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 20:05

Such a revealing thread. When I posted about the lack of impact WPUK has had on shoring up women's rights / child safeguarding in contrast to all the other women's groups & individuals I did wonder whether I was being a bit unfair.
But, if we take at face value that these KJK obsessors are involved with WPUK as claimed, then the ineffectiveness of the WPUK is explained. Just like the sad old WEP, they're completely in thrall to the MRA movement - unable to centre women or work collaboratively with any women who doesn't submit to the overlords.
Just as the Brighton baby screamer chillingly demonstrated how some women can abuse even a baby if it's demanded by this male led movement, so this thread showcases another captured organisation that ends up working against women.

WPUK did seem to be captured early on. I remember watching videos of some of their early meetings and I made a point of watching one where a 'transwomen' was speaking.

I found it very uncomfortable. This individual was clearly performing the role of 'woman' whilst being obviously male (what did I expect?) and trying to suggest that they were a woman just like all the actual women there. Just the sort of thing that I thought that WPUK had been set up to counter.

And yet they banned KJK from speaking because she once said something they didn't like.

LangClegsInSpace · 09/12/2022 20:26

Mouseum · 09/12/2022 19:49

Helen Joyce said she would not work with ADF in the US because they were powerful there but she would in the UK because they are extremely fringe here and only get a platform on other people's terms.

I'm more wary of the ADF UK than Helen Joyce (although I don't know her stance on abortion), it was only yesterday they lost this battle in the Supreme Court

news.yahoo.com/uk-high-court-rules-pro-173308218.html

The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom has ruled it legal to ban pro-life demonstrations and advocacy from the perimeter of abortion clinics.

The Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) Northern Ireland Bill would legalize "buffer" zones around abortion clinics that would prohibit the presence of pro-life groups or demonstrators within 328 feet of an abortion provider.

"Peaceful presence, mere conversation, quiet or silent prayer — these activities should never be criminalized in a democratic society like the U.K.," said Alliance Defending Freedom legal counsel Jeremiah Igunnubole.

"Northern Ireland’s broadly drafted law hands arbitrary power to police officers, with the inevitable consequence being the unjust arrest and prosecution of those expressing pro-life views, even though such views are protected under domestic and international human rights law," Igunnubole added.

They lost.

I'm not worried about ADF in the UK because the courts are against them on this and we don't live in a culture, even in NI, where normal people think this is OK.

They've done us a favour, they've spent their own money escalating this case on points of law and we now have a rock solid, unanimous, supreme court judgment that says protest exclusion zones around abortion clinics are compatible with human rights.

Likewise, I'm not unhappy that Crowter and Lea-Wilson brought their case, attempting to remove women's right to have late TFMR, even though I know it has been very distressing for women who have needed this option (thank you, every one of you who shared your story Flowers), because it has provided an opportunity for several judges to clearly confirm that personhood begins at birth and foetuses do not have human rights.

They are also saying they will escalate to the high court. Bring it. Let's have some supreme court judges saying the same thing. Let them spend their own money creating really useful case law for us.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 20:29

Maybe we've misunderstood OldCrone? I did think that one of their main aims was to ensure that women's rights were not eroded - maybe I'm being unfair in expecting them to be concerned about safeguarding children and girls - although wasn't Kiri Tunks a co founder and an educator?

I get that this is hard and KJK's uncompromising language and approach can be tough if you work in an environment where you're meant to pander to male demands for inclusion in women's spaces or to mangle facts & language to avoid committing literal violence against a sacred caste 😑

LangClegsInSpace · 09/12/2022 20:33

I'm more wary of the ADF UK than Helen Joyce (although I don't know her stance on abortion)

She's solidly pro-choice.

xalo · 09/12/2022 20:44

Yes!

BettyFilous · 09/12/2022 20:45

You're preaching to the choir that doesn't support you, so what's the point? Why aren't you talking to the agnostics???

KJK’s knockers on this thread aren’t talking to the agnostics because it would raise awareness of just how down the rabbit hole we are. Remember, the Denton’s strategy is to get this on the statute books under the cover of darkness, through political back channels, without due democratic process and public consultation. The ‘educate yourself’ process runs towards GC beliefs. If even my teen can see their arguments don’t add up, they’re certainly not going to fly once the general public are introduced to them.

Datun · 09/12/2022 20:48

BettyFilous · 09/12/2022 20:45

You're preaching to the choir that doesn't support you, so what's the point? Why aren't you talking to the agnostics???

KJK’s knockers on this thread aren’t talking to the agnostics because it would raise awareness of just how down the rabbit hole we are. Remember, the Denton’s strategy is to get this on the statute books under the cover of darkness, through political back channels, without due democratic process and public consultation. The ‘educate yourself’ process runs towards GC beliefs. If even my teen can see their arguments don’t add up, they’re certainly not going to fly once the general public are introduced to them.

True. They're not interested in influencing anyone. Just ranting on about women who are more successful than they are.

Moonatics · 09/12/2022 20:58

Namochang · 09/12/2022 18:04

Just to add, I have nothing to gain by ‘smearing’ her and it’s certainly not my intention to be nasty about anyone. I just feel we have a lot to lose by having her at the forefront of this.

All the left wing women who were fence sitting will have a lot to be put off by.

So please feel free to either be at the forefront or find a suitable candidate. Until that happens I will continue to believe you are trying to be nasty about a woman who has done so well. Which screams jealousy.

LangClegsInSpace · 09/12/2022 21:02

For info, KJK is on the advisory board of WoLF.

womensliberationfront.org/meet-the-wolf-advisory-council

WoLF do occasionally join forces with the right on specific cases. While this makes me uncomfortable, I am not aware of any other feminist org in the US that has achieved anywhere near what they have on fighting the gender agenda. I have been asking for years which US feminist orgs I should be supporting instead and all I get back is tumbleweed.

So I'm inclined to believe WoLF when they say it's not possible to make any headway on this in the US without engaging with the right.

If I am wrong then I will listen to US women not UK women and they will need to show a better way of working (i.e. actually do the work), not just tell us why WoLF are terrible.

Same for HATA.

Also, right wing women are actually women.

'Their lives are worth what your life is worth. That's why.'

Dworkin:

www.catwa.org.au/historical-rrecordings/

Kellie-Jay's New Political Party
Moonatics · 09/12/2022 21:25

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 18:27

I do believe transgender people exist. And I do think that after full gender transition surgery that TW should be able to use the womens toilets. I don’t agree with penises in womens spaces. This isn’t a black and white issue.

Well to me, this is a black and white issue, men are men no matter the feelings in their head and should not be in any women only space.
So which of us gets to choose who is allowed? Cos you apparently are ok with a few men I'm ok with no men. This is a divide we cant compromise.

HappinessAlley · 09/12/2022 21:35

I think those of us expressing a negative opinion of KJK have been quite balanced and measured and provided links and answered questions to support our reasoning

Wow, really? You really think that's how you come across?

I find this fascinating. How two people can see the same thread in completely opposite ways. Amazing.

FOJN · 09/12/2022 21:36

All the left wing women who were fence sitting will have a lot to be put off by.

If they are put off campaigning for women's rights because they don't like the personality or strategy of a highly effective campaigner and have made no headway themselves then they can feel free to sit this one out.

I'll continue to put women first and give credit where it's due without putting anyone on a pedestal.

Brokendaughter · 09/12/2022 21:47

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 18:03

I’m one person but there were a few of us on this thread who share the same concerns with KJK. I have no such agenda as ‘dragging women down’ you’re confusing me with KJK and her cult like followers.

So eager to deny KJKs links to the alt right and far right. So eager to pretend KJK is the only way to defend womens rights. So eager to say that we must work with racists and homophobes and even hate groups to defend womens spaces. So eager to defend KJK saying that if it comes to it, we must sacrifice our right to an abortion as “the cause” is more important. Applauding her when she comes out saying she’s not a feminist.

All because she’s a fantastic speaker and has charisma and everyone is all 🤩 because they’re only going by her public persona. Not her interviews, not her posts, not who she is collaborating with and building alliances with.

This is toxic MRA and religious right Christian genius to convince so many feminists that abortion rights can be given up for the “right to say what you are and who you are” [referring to who gets to call themselves a woman and use womens spaces] and then “won back” 🙄

Has any girl or woman died because a biological male has called themself a transwoman or transgirl? No. Have girls and women died because of no access to a legal abortion? Yes- and far more than are murdered by male violence.

Just think about the messages you are defending.

Yes, women have been murdered for daring to be born biologically female by men who resent it.

Have you never heard of the trans mass murderer Dana Rivers?

Or don't you think real lesbians lives matter?

The impression I've got about WPUK is poor & makes me think of those purity spirals people loved to get stuck in a few years back.

KJK doesn't appear to give a damn who supports who, as long as they support biological women.
While everyone else is moaning, she gets off her backside & takes action.

I have some respect for KJK, who never seems to have the time or inclination to waste words bitching about other women doing things their own way.

It is perfectly possible to be pro life AND not want women to have their identity stolen by a bunch of men.

Forgotthebins · 09/12/2022 22:40

brokendaughter when you say pro-life do you mean anti-abortion? Because being anti-abortion is not pro the lives of women.

NecessaryScene · 09/12/2022 22:41

To be fair to WPUK, they used to be quite effective. Despite their initial falling out with KJK, they managed to carry on and were one of the main forces during 2017-2020, holding numerous successful events, and doing what KJK does now, which is showing up the behaviour of the protesting TRAs. The event during the Brighton Labour conference, for example. They were very much at the forefront. Check out the videos of their events - lots of great speakers.

Somehow since 2020 they've basically shut down their actual campaigning, as far as I can tell, and only seem to exist as a "complain that others are doing it wrong" hobby group.

Maybe I'm getting a false impression, but I like to think I follow this stuff fairly closely. And if I can't notice what they're doing (aside from complaining), I doubt the general public can at all. I guess we've seen suggestions that they reckon they're being effective at some sort of internal Labour party lobbying that we can't see?

I find it hard to believe whatever they're doing that we can't see could outweigh the negative effects of their continuous promotion of hitherto-insignificant groups like Hearts of Oak, and attempts to convince people that women's rights activism is linked to the far right.

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 22:44

🥱 Yawn. I see the obsessed devotees are still busy praising KJK.

Is it truly being “effective” to have proposed in writing and verbally at least twice now per documentation on this thread- a deal with the patriarchy that would push womens rights back sixty years? You should be reading this as the campaign promise it most certainly is.

How many women do you think would accept an abortion ban in order to preserve single sex spaces? How is it supporting biological women to take away our reproductive rights?

Other than that, what has KJK actually accomplished other than making cash money through crowdfunders and selling merch?

Helleofabore · 09/12/2022 22:56

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 18:25

Katie did voyeurism and sexual assault in a womens toilet…they could have accessed the womens toilet without the TW label. I know, I’ve been assaulted in the womens toilet by a man who was not a TW, as have many other women and girls. It’s not just TW going in there.

Karen stabbed a pensioner in his home, they didn’t get access to him by being a TW. In the womens prison, Karen has assaulted a few women- yes the label gave access to women victims of assault.

But no woman or girl has DIED. That was my comment. Not “ever been slightly harmed”

As in does the woman label cause DEATH to women and girls at anything like the same rate of DEATHS that occur when you take away the right to a legal and safe abortion.

Your two paltry examples only prove my point. I think it’s a bit misogynistic to rank voyeurism and sexual assault or common assault ABOVE death…it reeks of the old patriarchal value that a woman/girls purity is more important than her life.

Fuck. I cannot believe this poster is at it again on a new thread.

This time the language is dismissive about White’s rapes and assaults , ‘Karen has assaulted a few…’

And the minimising of Dolatowalski’s assaults too. When Dolatowalski was a teenager, after this poster started a thread to attempt to shame feminists that potential male teenagers might be asked politely about whether they were in the right toilet the other day?

This has been eye opening! Supposedly from at WPUK supporter too? And an actual feminist?

An actual feminist that posted the following on a thread discussing the attacks on women silently protesting in Oakland the other day.

Please read this selection from their posts, including the twist where they decided to acknowledge violence at women, but …. to minimise it to the point that it was still being dismissed by this poster (despite constant attempts to say they were NOT dismissing the violence).

I read the same dismissal’ in the way this poster writes about children being attacked by a teenaged Dolatowalski and ‘a few women’ raped by White. I will let you all read to see what you think. This selection is from this thread linked here

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4692559-women-protesting-in-front-of-alameda-county-courthouse-attacked?page=1

This is how many ways this poster has rolled out the "dismiss violence by minimising it, even while denying minimising/dismissing it" tactic. Using repeated minimisation of the attacks where women had eggs and cream pies throw at them. And then the attempt to expand the topic of the thread so as to make discussion meaningless because the expanded topic about horrific violence in large scale protests would render these small protests insignificant. With some other accusations like ‘racism’ thrown in…

06/12/2022 17:43 "A pie in the face, eggs being thrown, signs snatched are not “going too far” or considered “violence” in a country where other protesters are regularly shot with rubber bullets and some are even shot and killed with real bullets or killed by being rammed by a car or SUV (yes I’m talking about even since 2020, not in the bad old days)."

06/12/2022 22:05 "If it’s a “new norm” for the USA it is actually quite heartening to see compared to killed by gun violence, death by vehicle, water cannons and tear gas."

pivot to now superficially acknowledge violence, while still dismissing it

06/12/2022 22:36 "I said it’s not acceptable, but given the way protests in the USA can and have gone down, I think it’s pretty tone deaf to imply what happened is some new escalation of violence when it is clearly a significant de-escalation of violence."

"I dont know if you have seen Antifa in action before? Usually they’re not coming at you with cream pies and eggs. Usually it’s bricks and glass bottles."

"It’s not wrong to point out these women were actually quite lucky. It could have been much worse."

06/12/2022 23:16 "It’s a bit naive to be pretending that cream pies and an egg or two are some new escalation in violence for the US and women are being targeted with heightened violence and assaults. What these women experienced could easily have been far worse."

and

"Side note: King Charles III has had eggs thrown at him twice in the past month….what’s your thought on that?"

06/12/2022 23:48 "Don’t be ridiculous, you’re only upset because it’s showing the shock & horror over a cream pie and an egg or two, is over-egging things a bit. You can decry violence while putting it into its proper perspective:"

07/12/2022 00:19 "Its all violence, but some violence is objectively worse than other violence so that’s not something I would say."

07/12/2022 10.22 "Im not dismissing any violence btw, Ive said it is all violence.

"It seems you are the only one dismissing violence by firstly neglecting to mention the greatest violence in Tacoma was done by women and when that is pointed out, you then go on to justify this violence because it was done by a woman." (Note: thereby stating that no woman should defend herself against a larger person's spitting after 4 minutes of being intimidated )

07/12/2022 10:50 "Of course all violence is unacceptable, but, yes I am uncomfortable with your attempt to portray a cream pie and a few eggs by calling it some “new norm” and implying that it is more violent than before- when over a dozen protesters have been killed at USA protests in since Covid, the vast majority of whom have been black men and women."

and

"So, yes it is my opinion that it is tone deaf to sit in the U.K. and demand the USA should express moral outrage over a few white women getting some whipped cream and egg yolk on them. The USA doesn’t see anything less than actual bodily harm (mace, punching, hitting) and death as violence. We do, but they do not. They do not count the wounded pride of white women having egg on their face."

and

"Yes, I am giving you backlash for caring more about white women with cream and egg on them than you care about minority men and women being beaten unconscious or murdered at USA protests.".

07/12/2022 16:50. "It was peaceful by US standards as no one was injured."

and

"I am bringing race into it because the optics of your initial posts are tone deaf to imply cream pies and eggs are some “new norm” of heightened violence"

and

"It’s not dismissing violence to state that cream pies and eggs are not as violent as being punched until unconscious, maced, shot and killed or rammed by a car and killed."

and

"one small protest in California met with a cream pie and eggs"

07/12/2022 17:07 "unlike many other peaceful protests, no one was injured or killed."

and

"I’m not saying don’t talk about it, it’s perfectly fine to talk about every protest and what happened at it. It’s ok to condemn all violence and call the cream pie and eggs out as unacceptable. What’s not ok is erasing the injuries and deaths of mostly minority peaceful protesters"

07/12/2022 17:39 "they lobbed food at women."

All because a thread was started about a group of about 10-15 diverse women protesting in California who were attacked while standing silently protesting.

I was unsurprised to read that post quoted attached to my post. It really is par for the course.

This apparently is ‘actual feminism’.

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