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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Kellie-Jay's New Political Party

1000 replies

TheBadLuckOfTeelaBrown · 07/12/2022 13:34

I can't see a thread on this, but she is starting a new party and will run in elections.

twitter.com/StandingforXX/status/1600235830475653123?s=20&t=hhlXpo7uErB4FlkFj1nSRA

www.theotherparty.co.uk

OP posts:
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41
Happylittlechicken · 09/12/2022 17:45

@Onnabugeisha you ok hon? You seem to be a bit confused. Are you multiple people posting? Just asking as I’m done of your posts you use ‘we’ and ‘our’. If you are s ‘real feminist’ why are you so determined to drag women down and shut them up?

MangyInseam · 09/12/2022 17:46

What is this idea that KJK is "giving up" abortion rights. SHe has said little about them, when push comes to shove.

I get the impression, and this is very weird, that some people do not want the support of people who are, say pro-life, or some have some other belief they disagree with, even if they agree on some important issue.

So if women across the political spectrum, with 10 or 20 different viewpoints on abortion, all agree about women being a biological category, these individuals would rather reject the views of all the women who disagree on other issues, reject their support, their votes.

They would rather lose the battle on recognizing women under the law than be known to agree with women who differ on other issues.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

What I want to know is how do you think political change happens?

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 17:51

As I said, you can’t handle the truth.

Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. I've seen all your 'evidence' and it doesn't convince me, not even a teeny tiny bit. But I'm glad it's there so that other women can see whether it convinces them.

You should also post evidence for your other claims, about KJK being against BAME girls and women and lesbians, for example. Keep it coming, please.

Because none of the evidence posted even hints at the idea that KJK is being “influenced” by “standing near” anyone at all.

I'd just love to know what is the problem with KJK standing near to purported fascists (the Hearts of Oak livestreamers in the park) or having her picture taken with someone then? If you're not worried about far right influence, then why do you even raise these issues? And if you are worried about far right influence, why don't you think that the influence could work both ways?

The point is KJK is saying "stop abusing children; protect women's rights." If she says that to fascists, why is that a problem? If she says it in a room paid for by the heritage foundation, why is that a problem? If she says it on Ben Boyce's podcast, why is that a problem? Where is she allowed to say it?

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 17:55

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 17:44

Thanks Warrior! She makes the point that she would work with the ADF are a tiny far right group that no one had ever heard of until feminists decided to give them two months of free publicity... Yes, sounds familiar.

I will have to watch the whole discussion - it looks excellent.

Sorry, muddled that.

She makes the point that she would work with the ADF on a narrow issue if it was politically expedient. And says that they're a tiny far right group that no one would know about if it weren't for the feminists giving them all this free publicity.

Helleofabore · 09/12/2022 17:55

Datun · 09/12/2022 13:25

The overturning of Roe v Wade lit a bomb under women. And Posie would've been asked over, and over, why she was campaigning on gender ideology issues, and not abortion issues.

She chooses the former. Some people think they can use that as leverage. 'Set aside', does not mean sacrifice.

She is vehemently pro-choice. She has voted left-wing on her life. She includes left-wing women, right wing women, far right wing women, and fascists in her campaigning.

No one is left out.

If you don't like it, set up your own political party.

I don't understand the mindset of talking to people on here. Most women aren't in the slightest bit swayed by your smear campaigns, and the one who agrees with you won't be changing their mind, either.

You're reaching fucking no one. Absolutely no one. It's just a hate fest, because she's so popular.

I'm also loving the admission of forensically listening to all her podcasts. 😄

She's reaching people who don't even like her!

This is hilarious datun.

I love the idea that there are people out there who seem to hate her so much and still listen to what she says… even out of spite.

EmpressaurusOfWitchesBackFromTheDead · 09/12/2022 17:55

I’m part of an online focus group for the Times and have just completed a survey which included a question about who I’d vote for in the next election & why. It had a nice big free text box to tell them all about it.

SulisMinerva · 09/12/2022 17:57

While you're at it, you could also explain why it is that KJK standing near some fascists makes her a fascist, but it doesn't make them women's rights activists. Why is that?

Interesting, isn’t it? Perhaps they think women have some sort of sponge like quality - all soft and ready to absorb any old thing the right says.
It seems to be a routine dismissal of women’s capacity for critical thinking and ability to filter out the crud.

Happylittlechicken · 09/12/2022 17:58

Maybe , just maybe, KJK is using this opportunity to convert the ‘right wing’ people into becoming invested in and pro women’s rights? Surely the influencing would go both ways?

Floisme · 09/12/2022 17:59

Yes, as Happylittlechicken says, who is this 'we' please, Onnabugeisha?
As in:
'what we have linked and posted on here.'
'We have posted the evidence multiple times'
(Two separate posts)

You have said you're not representing WPUK and that you're posting in a private capacity, and I'm guessing you're not using the royal 'we', so who else are you referring to?

Namochang · 09/12/2022 18:00

The information, the proof has been handed to you on a silver platter. You need to look at it and stop calling people liars about things you haven’t even bothered to look at and listen to.

Agree with this. I think those of us expressing a negative opinion of KJK have been quite balanced and measured and provided links and answered questions to support our reasoning but have been responded to with accusations of lying when it’s clear the evidence demanded of us wasn’t even looked at.

Has anyone got any information on her views on gender stereotypes? Having listened to her ‘why I’m not a feminist’ video and some of her others, I get the impression she’s not a fan of anyone not conforming to their gender stereotype in general. Whereas I believed most of us in the movement (or atleast when it was still mostly a feminist movement) believe men can wear a dress, be a stay at home dad and paint his nails and that’s totally fine, it just doesn’t suddenly give him the right to come in our spaces.

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 18:03

I think those of us expressing a negative opinion of KJK have been quite balanced and measured and provided links and answered questions to support our reasoning

Wow, really? You really think that's how you come across?

I get the impression she’s not a fan of anyone not conforming to their gender stereotype in general.

Hahahaha oh come on, this is a wee bit desperate now, isn't it?

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 18:03

Happylittlechicken · 09/12/2022 17:45

@Onnabugeisha you ok hon? You seem to be a bit confused. Are you multiple people posting? Just asking as I’m done of your posts you use ‘we’ and ‘our’. If you are s ‘real feminist’ why are you so determined to drag women down and shut them up?

I’m one person but there were a few of us on this thread who share the same concerns with KJK. I have no such agenda as ‘dragging women down’ you’re confusing me with KJK and her cult like followers.

So eager to deny KJKs links to the alt right and far right. So eager to pretend KJK is the only way to defend womens rights. So eager to say that we must work with racists and homophobes and even hate groups to defend womens spaces. So eager to defend KJK saying that if it comes to it, we must sacrifice our right to an abortion as “the cause” is more important. Applauding her when she comes out saying she’s not a feminist.

All because she’s a fantastic speaker and has charisma and everyone is all 🤩 because they’re only going by her public persona. Not her interviews, not her posts, not who she is collaborating with and building alliances with.

This is toxic MRA and religious right Christian genius to convince so many feminists that abortion rights can be given up for the “right to say what you are and who you are” [referring to who gets to call themselves a woman and use womens spaces] and then “won back” 🙄

Has any girl or woman died because a biological male has called themself a transwoman or transgirl? No. Have girls and women died because of no access to a legal abortion? Yes- and far more than are murdered by male violence.

Just think about the messages you are defending.

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 18:03

Floisme · 09/12/2022 17:59

Yes, as Happylittlechicken says, who is this 'we' please, Onnabugeisha?
As in:
'what we have linked and posted on here.'
'We have posted the evidence multiple times'
(Two separate posts)

You have said you're not representing WPUK and that you're posting in a private capacity, and I'm guessing you're not using the royal 'we', so who else are you referring to?

I bet I could hazard a guess...

Namochang · 09/12/2022 18:04

Just to add, I have nothing to gain by ‘smearing’ her and it’s certainly not my intention to be nasty about anyone. I just feel we have a lot to lose by having her at the forefront of this.

All the left wing women who were fence sitting will have a lot to be put off by.

airynothing · 09/12/2022 18:04

She makes the point that she would work with the ADF are a tiny far right group that no one had ever heard of until feminists decided to give them two months of free publicity..

I don't think the two months feminist publicity made much difference TBH, they received $55m from donors in 2018 steadily rising to $95m in 2022.

adflegal.org/about-us/who-we-are/financials

Kellie-Jay's New Political Party
Kellie-Jay's New Political Party
MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 18:05

What gives you the impression "that she’s not a fan of anyone not conforming to their gender stereotype in general" Namochang?

What has she said that makes you think that?

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 18:08

Has any girl or woman died because a biological male has called themself a transwoman or transgirl? No.

Plenty of women and girls have been harmed by this. Raped, abused, bullied out of jobs. Attacked in the street. And yes, women have been killed. You haven't been following this issue at all?

Meanwhile, we have the legal right to abortion in this country, not currently under any credible threat. And KJK has never said she wanted to give up those rights. She's staunchly pro-choice.

OldCrone · 09/12/2022 18:09

Has any girl or woman died because a biological male has called themself a transwoman or transgirl? No.

Can you be absolutely sure of this? Women and girls have certainly come to harm because of men identifying as 'transwomen'.

Katie Dolatowski's victims and Karen White's victims for example.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 18:11

Namochang · 09/12/2022 18:04

Just to add, I have nothing to gain by ‘smearing’ her and it’s certainly not my intention to be nasty about anyone. I just feel we have a lot to lose by having her at the forefront of this.

All the left wing women who were fence sitting will have a lot to be put off by.

If you have nothing to gain, then why are you and your KJK obsessed mates spending so much time doing precisely that? I learnt way back that feminism that excluded numerous groups of women was of limited value in getting societal change.
Yet here you all are, endlessly droning on about KJK's "sins" and allegedly representing an organisation (WPUK according to Onnabugeisha) with a woeful track record in protecting women's rights and safeguarding children. KJK's achievements in terms of engaging ordinary women in these battles frankly put you all to shame.

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 18:11

I was thinking of Dana River's victims, too.

airynothing · 09/12/2022 18:11

And KJK has never said she wanted to give up those rights.

I agree she's never said she wanted to, she said she would be willing to if it helped her current battle agaist gender ideolgy.

Onnabugeisha · 09/12/2022 18:11

ADF are not “tiny”
From one of the links I posted already that no one seems bovvered enough to have glanced at:

Founded by some 30 leaders of the Christian Right, the Alliance Defending Freedom is a legal advocacy and training group that has supported the recriminalization of sexual acts between consenting LGBTQ adults in the U.S. and criminalization abroad; has defended state-sanctioned sterilization of trans people abroad; has contended that LGBTQ people are more likely to engage in pedophilia; and claims that a “homosexual agenda” will destroy Christianity and society. ADF also works to develop “religious liberty” legislation and case law that will allow the denial of goods and services to LGBTQ people on the basis of religion. Since the election of President Trump, ADF has become one of the most influential groups informing the administration’s attack on LGBTQ rights.

Despite its regular defamation of LGBTQ people, the group has managed to win special advisory status at the United Nations, in the European Union, and with the Organization of American States.

According to its website, the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) was launched on the morning of Jan. 31, 1994, during a meeting of more than 30 Christian leaders, in order to “defend religious freedom before it was too late.”

The founding board and original funders included James Dobson of Focus on the Family; Bill Bright of the Campus Crusade for Christ; D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries (now D. James Kennedy Ministries); and Don Wildmon, founder of the American Family Association. Its original purpose was to oppose the ACLU and other “radical groups” as well as to fight for “religious liberty.” Since its founding, ADF has expanded its operations abroad as it battles abortion, LGBTQ equality, and what it considers the “myth” of the separation of church and state.

A few gems
”When given the same choice the Supreme Court of the United States had in Lawrence vs. Texas, the Indian Court did the right thing. India chose to protect society at large rather than give in to a vocal minority of homosexual advocates. … America needs to take note that a country of 1.2 billion people has rejected the road towards same-sex marriage, and understood that these kinds of bad decisions in the long run will harm society.” – Benjamin Bull, former executive director of ADF Global, on the recriminalization of consensual sex between adults of the same sex in India, 2013”

”“In the end, those who profess to be ‘gay’ or ‘lesbian,’ or who have otherwise slipped in and out of homosexual behavior, including ‘cruising’ for anonymous partners, are people who succumb to a dangerous temptation.” – Austin Nimocks, then-ADF senior counsel, writing at TownHall.com, 2007”

”We mention the new promotion of pedophilia in the context of talking about the influence of homosexual behavior on college campuses, because, despite all objections to the contrary, the two are often intrinsically linked.” – Alan Sears and Craig Osten, The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today, 2003”

“Alan Sears was the longtime president, CEO and general counsel of ADF until January 2017. He served in various positions during the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and also worked for the Department of Justice and was appointed director of the Attorney General’s Commission on Pornography.

Under Sears’ leadership, ADF expanded its training, funding and outreach not only domestically but internationally. Using its international platforms, ADF works with policymakers and other organizations to outlaw abortion, deny equality and marriage to LGBTQ people worldwide, and continue to push for a hard-right Christian theocratic worldview that is reflected in legislation and policies.

ADF’s longstanding antipathy toward LGBTQ people has become public through its work on lawsuits, various statements its leaders have made and materials it has offered on its website over the years. It has also promoted the idea of a “homosexual agenda”— a nefarious scheme to destroy Christianity and, eventually, civilization through LGBTQ people’s efforts to secure equality under the law. To those who believe in this conspiracy theory, LGBTQ people are not really seeking equality; rather, they are actually seeking to destroy such things as Christianity, the family and culture.

here is the link (again) with much more of this ilk.
www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/alliance-defending-freedom

beastlyslumber · 09/12/2022 18:12

airynothing · 09/12/2022 18:11

And KJK has never said she wanted to give up those rights.

I agree she's never said she wanted to, she said she would be willing to if it helped her current battle agaist gender ideolgy.

Well, that's different, isn't it? I would too, if it came to it. Which I doubt it will.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/12/2022 18:13

"Has any girl or woman died because a biological male has called themself a transwoman or transgirl?"

Bingo - they always out themselves. 😂

OldCrone · 09/12/2022 18:13

And thanks for showing us who you really are @Onnabugeisha. You can stop pretending you support WPUK now and just come clean about being a TRA.

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