Nhs badge issue pronouns

[goldfishthecracker]

Started a new job today and got my ID badge. I had to put my preferred pronouns on the form for my badge. It wasn't an option for me not to pick it.

I gave it back without picking one and she handed it back to me saying she wouldn't give me a badge without me choosing them and I need my badge to work. She accused me of being transphobic when I said I didn't want to put them on display and i queried why I had to do it.

Now I have an official badge that I have to wear on display for patients and other health care professionals to see who I am with my pronouns very clearly displayed.

I'd share a photo but it has all my ID on it!

Can I raise this as an issue with my union? I don't want my pronouns to be on display, i see no need for it at all. Apparently they're moving towards all staff needing to display their pronouns on their badge. All previous staff are being asked to hand in their old badges and get a new one with their pronouns on it

Is it me?

A badge statement of “preferred pronouns” is a statement that the badge wearer agrees with the idea that pronouns need stating, ie that they agree that the wearer’s physical reality may not match their gender. It’s a statement that the badge wearer agrees that it is possible to change gender. It’s a statement of political opinion. It’s compelled speech, and it is not legal in Britain.

Insisting that a gender critical person wear a badge with preferred pronouns is like insisting that a Labour supporter wear a Conservative logo on their work name badge. Except what the NHS is doing is much worse, because Labour supporters vs Conservative supporters merely differ on political policies, whereas transactivists vs gender critical people disagree on which should reign supreme: reality and safeguarding, or someone’s feelings based on sexist gender stereotypes.

But you already know all this, you must do, these points have been extensively discussed in both national press and on mumsnet. So you’re just trying to create an argument to screenshot 🙄 instead of respectfully engaging with the OP’s concern, which is what should an employee do, when requested to state as part of work uniform a political opinion with which they vehemently disagree, when their own opposing political opinion is protected as a matter of law?

OP - I’d lodge a ‘bullying in the workplace’ type claim against the person who called you transphobic, and separately put in a formal letter to the legal department if there is one or HR if there isn’t, regarding the NHS’s failure to respect your legally protected gender critical beliefs and ask how they are going to protect their gender critical employees from workplace discrimination, and also how they are going to protect the NHS from the legal consequences of this type of workplace harassment and discrimination.

@Tiredalwaystired and that’s fine right.

But don’t force me to wear a hijab, crucifix, turban or pronouns. And certainly don’t call me a bigot if I refuse.

By the way I am not saying that you are. I am just saying that this is what OP encountered. X

The point I was making isn't about what I think or don't think (and I didn't actually make a statement either way about my beliefs, other than that I think the NHS are getting this wrong).

The point I was making is that if you are going to accuse someone of bullying you, you shoudn't then bully/ be unpleasant to them in return.

Everyone needs to listen to each other a bit more in all of this.

The point I was making is that if you are going to accuse someone of bullying you, you shoudn't then bully/ be unpleasant to them in return.

What should you do, in your opinion, if someone is bullying you? Be kind to them?

Short term solution and considering that there's a chunk of the NHS who collect stickers and lanyard badges like they're Pokemon... get the "I'm amazing and have had my flu jab" sticker which goes ON your ID badge and just "accidentally obscures your pronouns bit."

They're still optional on our Trust ID badges - although after 4 months of requesting mine - I'm at the point where they could identify me as fucking Tinkerbell if they actually got round to issuing the damned thing to me.

How do you suggest the OP get her workplace Badge Monitor to listen more?

We’d all love some useful tips, I’m sure.

The Covid and flu jab sticker I got today is now covering all but my name and photo!

No,, they aren't, as the Onuoha case established. Religious symbols are permitted if they don't interfere with the job and there is no proseltyzing. An unwillingness to say how you'd like to be referred to in the third person is a pseudo-religious belief, so I expect they'd be accommodating.

You can refuse a reasonable request from a boss if you have a good reason for it founded on a religious or pseudo-religious belief, and it doesn't interfere with your work, and being "gender critical" fits that category. You'd need to be careful how you express that belief.

Gender critical beliefs are protected characteristics in the wake of Forstater 2021. Pronouns surely fit within this so in making you fill them in, that's discrimination.

@Tiredalwaystired wherever the funding comes from, perhaps it's money that would be better spent on providing patients with a cup of tea after a procedure.

Religious symbols are permitted if they don't interfere with the job and there is no proseltyzing.

Does coercing everyone else to go along with your belief in gendered souls and the necessity of pronoun declaration count as proselytising?

You can refuse a reasonable request from a boss if you have a good reason for it founded on a religious or pseudo-religious belief, and it doesn't interfere with your work, and being "gender critical" fits that category. You'd need to be careful how you express that belief.

Why do you need to be careful how you express that belief? Does the same apply to genderology believers? Or to Christians or Muslims? What exactly do you need to be careful about?

As I said, all new starters need a badge regardless so unless this is a Trustwide mandate (so far it’s only the posters trust that appears to follow this line - all others are saying it’s optional) it’s not costing any more than the badge they need regardless.

Yes

Besides, the singular neutral pronouns are 'it' and 'its'. They/them is wrong in so many ways!

Your friends at FreeSpeechUnion say:
"If you set out your reasons for not wanting to make a declaration in a calm and considered way it will be harder for your employer to demand that you do it and remain entirely reasonable."

So, don't lead with "trans woman are not women," or "people should be able to tell which pronouns people use," or other straight-up transphobia, protected or not. You can do it without deliberately causing offence to minorities.

Go with "showing how I would like to be referred to in the third person goes against my protected gender critical beliefs."

In the same way, if you were a fundamentalist Christian who didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding, with "I support gay marriage" on the icing you wouldn't say "I believe all homosexuals are going to hell and marriage between men is an outrage in the sight of God."

You do know they lost the gay cake court case for reasons obvious to everyone.

But perhaps reasons too nuanced for @DadJoke

My "friends"? I don't know anything about the Free Speech Union.

"trans woman are not women" isn't transphobia. It's fact. In order to be a transwoman it is necessary to be male. Which means that a woman can't be a transwoman. But whether or not you believe that people can change sex is not the issue here, and I don't know why you think anyone would need to make a comment about this belief in the context of not wishing to declare pronouns.

You are failing to recognise that it's the employer who is in the wrong here. They should not be coercing employees to make a faith-based statement regardless of whether or not they believe in this ideology. As you point out, this is a minority view. We should not all be forced to participate.

Imagine if the NHS said that because they had some Muslim staff who believe that all women should cover their heads, they were going to make all female NHS staff wear an Islamic head covering. How would you expect people to respond to this?

What about a government department which expected all staff to attend church, regardless of whether they were Christians or not?

If you want to declare your pronouns, go ahead. Nobody will stop you. But it is inappropriate to expect non-believers in genderism to do this as well.

what do you think people with a different outlook on gender identiy believe in?

It's an odd metaphysical belief I don't share. Like belief in an ineffable creator. I'm not going to be rude about it to their faces, but I'm perfectly entitled to conclude that believers in a whole range of dubious faith based belief systems and ideologies aren't connected to reality.

You can scold as much as you like, you can't force beliefs on people.

The baker won in the case to which I referred. The issue was the message, not the cake.

www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jan/06/gay-cake-row-man-loses-seven-year-battle-against-belfast-bakery

Exactly. They couldn't be compelled to write a message on the cake that conflicted with their beliefs.

So after that case, it's surprising that any employer is trying to compel people to make a declaration which would imply that they subscribe to a minority belief.

@OldCrone I've stated that employers are obliged to make reasonable accommodations for protected beliefs, no matter how unpleasant. I've suggested how, in this case, the OP could put her case quoting a right-wing, gender critical source of legal information.

I think the employer would be in legal trouble if they insisted on it.

You've jumped from that to this nonsense:

Imagine if the NHS said that because they had some Muslim staff who believe that all women should cover their heads, they were going to make all female NHS staff wear an Islamic head covering. How would you expect people to respond to this?

I don't know, what if the Earth were made of pudding?

Transgender people, almost universally, consider "trans women are not women" to be transphobic. The fact that some beliefs are both protected does not stop them being bigoted.Some Christians believe that gay marriage is an offense in the sight of God, but I wouldn't mention it at work if I were them.

Your pseudo-religious belief is protected, but that doesn't mean you can be transphobic at work. See the Forstater judgement on this issue.

If you went up to a trans woman at work and said "you are a man," or to a gay person "you are going to hell," you could rightly and legally be fired.

"I believe all homosexuals are going to hell and marriage between men is an outrage in the sight of God."

In what way is your above example comparable to ‘sex is immutable and sometimes sex is relevant to medicine and in law’?

Seems awfully hyperbolic and strawmanny to compare the two.

Are you prejudiced against people who think sex is relevant to human existence? Seems a bit bigoted…

You are putting words in my mouth. "Trans women are not women," is the phrase I very specifically used which is as offensive and transphobic as the phrase I used was homophobic.

Transgender people are deeply aware of the reality of sexed characteristics and their relevance in law and medicine.

I can only guess you have never met any transgender people.