Nhs badge issue pronouns

[goldfishthecracker]

Started a new job today and got my ID badge. I had to put my preferred pronouns on the form for my badge. It wasn't an option for me not to pick it.

I gave it back without picking one and she handed it back to me saying she wouldn't give me a badge without me choosing them and I need my badge to work. She accused me of being transphobic when I said I didn't want to put them on display and i queried why I had to do it.

Now I have an official badge that I have to wear on display for patients and other health care professionals to see who I am with my pronouns very clearly displayed.

I'd share a photo but it has all my ID on it!

Can I raise this as an issue with my union? I don't want my pronouns to be on display, i see no need for it at all. Apparently they're moving towards all staff needing to display their pronouns on their badge. All previous staff are being asked to hand in their old badges and get a new one with their pronouns on it

Is it me?

@Babdoc I hope you picked them up on phrasing it as "putting you to sleep" as well. A lot of adults and children would understand being put to sleep as being euthanized to end their suffering.

@Babdoc
''Don’t wish to derail the thread, but I still believe Christian names are completely inappropriate for the doctor patient relationship.
You are a) asking a patient to put their life in your hands and
b) often performing intimate and embarrassing procedures on them. They need the professional distance.''

I do have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Not all patients are the same and not all doctor-patient relationships are the same. For instance, I am a professor of veterinary medicine (I am not, but at a similar level of experience, expertise and seniority). I am not going to be reassured merely because you use your title and emphasise the difference/distance between us. I am going to be reassured by someone who treats me as an equal and gives me the information I need. However I don't expect you to have taken the time to read my c.v. before meeting me.
Your post seems to imply a certain homogeneity in the group called 'patients' which is largely grounded in your superiority over them. I don't think your assumption of what 'they need' is going to always be correct.

I won't be showing you my ID badge for obvious reasons! Sorry if you don't believe me but I don't even have twitter!!

Totally agree

I've never been asked for my pronouns (or asked anyone else for theirs) but if I ever was I plan to use hee/haw and tell them I identify as a donkey😁

Maybe you should have tried that OP?

Gender Identity is a belief, you say so yourself.

Transitioned people who do not believe in the concept of gender identity exist.
They tend to describe themselves as people with Gender Dysphoria (or, depending on when they transitioned, people who were diagnosed as having ‘Gender Identity Disorder’ or ‘Transsexualism’).
For them, the best answer to their internal distress is (and in so far as it’s practically possible) to take on the cosmetic appearance of being the opposite sex.

To believe in the concept of Gender identity is believe that everyone has a GI (what I can only assume is some sort of gendered soul) and that language and society (including spaces reserved for women) should be organised via this internal sense of self.

People can hold this belief without being transgender themselves, they tend to refer to themselves as ‘cisgender’.

I’m a gender identity apostate. I sort of believed in it until I listened more and then I realised it was pure faith based position and there was no objective material reality underpinning it.

Not believing in the nebulous concept of Gender Identity doesn’t indicate anything beyond the rejection of a belief, a belief that is held by some trans people (and not others) and some non trans people (and not others).

Perhaps you yourself should ‘be a bit more respectful should listen a bit more’?

I disagree the title has more professional significance than any other.

If a person has a PhD they have worked for their title and it has significance. If a Dr does not hold the title in connection with a PhD the title is honorary and their professionalism exists through the letters after their name. In the same way as for an accountant or solicitor.

My ds has a PhD. His title is Dr. It was hard earned. He is not a physician or surgeon. His students would not dream of calling him anything other than Jack (not his real name). Similarly his wife's father is a professor. His title was earned after obtaining a PhD, after many years of research led practice and teaching. He is also a physician. He wears neither title on his sleeve. He introduces himself as Ian (again not his real name).

If I'm at a hospital I want a name badge to say 2 things

1. Name with appropriate title, e.g. Mr, Mrs, Dr, Professor
2. Job role e.g. Senior registrar, Ward nurse, Anaesthetist, Reception

I maybe would like flags showing languages spoken.
I don't think I care about anything else.

I also actively don't want the badge cluttered up with unnecessary stuff because it makes it harder to find the needed information.

A job title has a significance in the workplace that doesn’t really exist beyond it, regardless of the job.

Maybe that’s the real mismatch here?

Doctor is a bit of an anomaly as it specifically refers to an academic qualification (one that may or may not be medical) but is used in a manner that socially interchangeable with Ms/Mr (but in some contexts, ie the one discussed here, it refers to a job title).

English is such a weird and wonderful mish mash that I’m now wondering how society would look if we standardised so all politie titles referred to academic qualification?

(people would have to call me ‘Master’ for starters 🤣)

FWIW my favourite doctor of all time (besides dad obvs!) is referred to as ‘Professor Lastname’ by students and staff, ‘Dr Shortversion of Firstname’ by patients (paediatrics) and ‘’Whole Firstname, No Title’’ by parents of patients. When spoken about in the third person most people combine the above and go with ‘Prof Shortversion of Firstname’.

it’s interesting to ponder and using Babdoc’s example above I wonder if something like ‘Hello, I’m Doctor Lastname, I’m your anaesthetist today. You can call me Katie or Doctor, whichever you prefer’ is reassuringly professional, whilst still friendly and egalitarian and also gives a polite generic option for those who immediately forget all the specifics they’ve just heard (and thus functions in the opposite way to special pronouns)!

The ‘put to sleep bit’ should definitely be avoided, mind you.

Where does the nhs get the funding for these new badges and time spent squabbling over enforcing them? Ridiculous waste. I would as pp have said say you don't believe in all this requirement for pronouns and won't be needing a new badge with pronouns on.

In my hospital our name badges have first name only, to protect our privacy. Which didn't stop a man who recently had a very brief interaction with a colleague from seeking her out and finding her on Instagram and Facebook.

As well as blocking him she reported the incident on Datix, the nhs incident reporting system. Don't forget to do this if it happens to you. Better still set all your social media accounts to private.

I should add our ID bagels have full name and grade. But the colleague concerned didn't have this on display but tucks it in her pocket.

I know, I know, it's a typo or an autocorrect.

But I just wanted to announce that I am very much in favour of ID bagels.

I would just cut off bits of an address label and cover the pronouns up until I took advice from the union.

PS from what I see of my union, they are all for this ludicrous nonsense, so dont hold your breath that they'll help you.

Or the other thing iv just thought of...could you tell HR you have changed your pronouns to obviously/female or obviously/male?

I’d go for she, he, they, it, their, (there, they’re) who, why, when, what, bing, bang, bong, splish, splash, splosh.

I don’t want pronouns on hospital doctors badges as I want my doctors to practice in biological reality. I want to feel confident in them, that they are truthful and factual.

If a doctor’s pronouns correctly correspond with what I can see and hear then I think they are stupid for going along with this ideology, over reality, and I feel uncomfortable with this doctor treating me.

If a doctor’s pronouns incorrectly correspond with what I can see and hear, alarms bell ring as it’s biologically deceptive and I don’t want this doctor treating me.

@Ndd135632 OK, and all I said was that suggesting that someone with an outlook different from your own does not 'believe in reality' is fairly unpleasant, and it's hypocritical to do that and complain about 'bullying' in the same post.

What about Oo/Ee/Oo/Ah/Ah/Ting/Tang/Walla/Walla/Bing/Bang?

What do you believe to be 'real' about a belief in gender identity?

People are welcome to believe in gender identity, just as they can hold any other religious or quasi-religious beliefs. But they shouldn't be forcing everyone else to behave as though they also hold this belief. That is what is unpleasant about this.

Belief and fact are not the same thing... I feel like I'm being forced into saying a man is a women or vice versa when physically they're just not are they?

Whatever they want to say to do is secondary to the fact you cannot change biology surely?

😁 so many to choose from and no one can argue if you identify as a Splosh or a Ting or whatever the hell you want it seems. It will eat itself eventually.

Hospital staff should be concentrating on the welfare of patients, not on a weird ideology. Other manifestations of personal belief - cruxifixes, political symbols and so on--are penalised, why is this allowed? I think most women want no part of this ideology.

Don’t worry it doesn’t come from the taxpayers if they are doing it from scratch across the board. It will be charity funding or funding support from an external organisation.

However, if it part of a new starters badge it probably does come out of taxpayers money as they will need a staff badge regardless. There is no extra charge for extra letters on the badge.

but where I work pronouns are entirely optional.

Im not sure they are penalised - hijabs, turbans and crucifixes are all acceptable in the NHS.

As long as clinically safe to do so from an infection control perspective these aren’t banned. (See section 5.5. www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/documents/uniforms-and-workwear-guidance-for-nhs-employers/)