Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

Fuck sake mate just look at Germany where women and girls are being trafficked in to the legal mega brothels

yuck. Ffs what’s wrong with you

So many good candidates this year! JKR, KJK, Maya Forstater, the list goes on.

I think those three are on it every year. They need a lifetime achievement award or something

Quote fail hat. Sorry

True, could be an additional category this year?

I just scanned down the list of women on the first page of last years thread and it was a nice palate cleanser, seeing a list of so many wonderful, strong, intelligent women's names really cheered me up!

So many good candidates this year! JKR, KJK, Maya Forstater, the list goes on.

Are you going to do another thread for it?

Someone should, for sure. Is @WarOnWomen still around? (she did all the real work last time)

And did you go and talk to those women to understand whether they had other prospects and opportunities, safe homes and loving families who could support them if they left?

I really suspect that you only have ever thought about this superficially.

You seem to mistake ‘safe work environment’ and ‘it was a co-op’ to mean they must all be there because they absolutely love being fucked in any orifice a man wishes. You have not once answered whether these women ever had the ability, the opportunities and the support to do anything other than getting fucked by a punter who wanted to exploit women.

Do you know?

Were they Oxford graduates with no money issues, no drug habits whatever to pay for? Could have have had a better paying job?

Did that ‘co-op’ have a pension plan?

I mean, you know women lose their fuck value as they age?

You are hiding behind ‘it was well-regulated’ as some kind of fucked up life line for ignoring the truth about those women’s situations.

honestly, have you spoken to any one of them in the 20-30 years since?

Exit services also know. Addiction support is an integral strand to their work.

Thanks to complete bellends telling everyone that women in the sex trade find it empowering, these charities and non-profits don't get many donations as they should. They always need money. Find your local service today.

Yours,

The Neighbourhood Watch

Apparently that bloke ‘knows’ stuff rather than just pontificating about it.

Remarkable.

Plus ca change.

Once they left his life, they stopped existing. In his mind, they are perpetually frozen as they were then.

They could not have reflected on their experiences, they will not have worked through pyschological trauma, or spoken to anyone else about it, because he did not see it. In the years since, they could have told their sisters, their daughters, their best friends that it was awful, but if they told one man that it was okay at the time, his word outweighs theirs. Forever.

Women's testimony is always worth less than a man's.

You can have a co-op and all be looking out for each other and still get beaten up, still get fucked in ways you haven't agreed to, still have men do what they want and not pay. You can all be looking out for each other and still be murdered. Women during the Yorkshire ripper days were trying to be safe and it didn't work because sex workers are more likely to be murdered because they are in vulnerable situations and when they're murdered there still remains the notion that they were asking for it. If they were nice, decent women it wouldn't happen. Of course it can and does but prostitution puts women in the most unsafe situation. That's not complicated and prostitutes know this but are caught in a vice. Why is drug addiction and alcoholism prevalent in the profession? Because it dulls the pain. Not complex. Straightforward and all because men think it's okay to buy something they think they have a right to.

This is my experience of talking to men IRL about porn, they have heard that some women enjoy it (do they? Really? I don't think so) from somewhere and this excuses all critical thought and the deafening shouts that most women are exploited, abused, trafficked and addicted where it isn't just a straight up assault recorded and uploaded to a porn site.

They lie to themselves that it's ok and that the women being hurt by porn/prostitution are in the minority (how many is too many?) and put their own sexual desires above anything else, because they are selfish and don't believe women.

Oh and convince themselves that they are Nice Guys in the meantime.

Testimonial injustice—what witnesses are believed, who is considered credible

Testimonial Injustice

IReallyLikeCrows

Yes. All this talk about ‘safe environments’ and ‘co-ops’ is a sop for people to ignore the reality.

Very few women would make the choice to have strange dicks shoved into their bodies if they had real choices…. Or at least felt they had real choices.

The potential for harm is huge no matter how any ‘safe environment’ is portrayed.

I am deeply suspect of the credibility of any man who discusses prostitution in that way, and who declares themselves more knowledgeable than women on the topic.

FFS I was enjoying this thread before the MRA popped up cos where else is a self(& only self)-respecting MRA going to be?

Urgh.

I enjoyed this Twitter thread - women's acts of rebellion matter & reverberate.
mobile.twitter.com/FourthWaver/status/1600275266839846912

Thanks!
A Woman Has Drawn is a lot more interesting than A Man Has Spoken, for sure.

Great twitter thread hop.

That would be a great thread here by itself. It really is a heartening share.

thanks

Yes, thanks @HopRockers that was a really good thread

This seems apposite

thecritic.co.uk/the-sex-trade-is-inherently-unsafe/

That’s a great thread Hop.

Women of the year for 2022 would be good to see. There are so many inspiring women and it’s nice to have a reminder of them all in one place. Worth celebrating what women can achieve.

One of the things I’ve enjoyed about women’s activism in this area is the humour. Such a contrast to the puritanical zeal of the other side.

I agree. Maybe there should be an award for the funniest contribution, if there isn't already? Reading the nominees would be a tonic, as well.

This article sums up the deadening impact of TRSOH nicely, I think:

Intolerance leads to McDonald’s of the mind.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3983d1b8-70ea-11ed-a188-d2cb771901d6?shareToken=e2cb485aa337fbb57494a6197ccc8a000_

This is the nominations from last year. Warm fuzzy feelings. 😊

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4427575-Nominations-open-OFFICIAL-FWR-Women-of-the-Year-Awards-2021

I see @HopRockers got here first with the archaeology Tweet I came to post. I agree that merits it's own thread, if you'd like to start one? There's so little known about the women of prehistory (or, indeed, most of history).

Its. I think my autocorrect elf is a reincarnated greengrocer.