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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations

986 replies

Kucingsparkles · 06/12/2022 15:14

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

OP posts:
QuickNameChangeAgain · 07/12/2022 09:11

Name changed as I've discussed this on other sm platforms and I don't want anyone linking my accounts.

My thoughts lately have been on charities and safeguarding children. I was thinking TrevorSpace, part of Trevor Project (the one Daniel Radcliffe is involved with) needs to be under closer scrutiny as apparently TrevorSpace is an affirming, online community for LGBTQ young people between the ages of 13-24 years old.

Gays Against Groomers have written an article about TrevorSpace and it's very concerning. I'm sure most interactions are fine but it's a paradise for opportunists. Who thought that putting adults together with young teens was a good idea?

Anyway, I'm surprised the report hasn't been talked about more.

www.gaysagainstgroomers.com/post/trevorspace-a-pedophile-s-paradise

Rainforrest · 07/12/2022 09:15

I've just been catching up with the thread, is @TassLeHoff one of the male influx from 'the other place?'

Kucingsparkles · 07/12/2022 09:29

Well, it all blew up overnight! I'm 100% in agreement with the women on here. I feel extremely strongly about prostitution and all the other ways that female bodies are exploited in service of men and the patriarchy. Also don't get me started on choicey-choicey fauxminism Angry

But on a lighted note, @HopRockers I loved that Twitter link. Women, celebrating what our bodies are capable of, and quietly rebelling, since prehistory!

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 09:36

Rainforrest · 07/12/2022 09:15

I've just been catching up with the thread, is @TassLeHoff one of the male influx from 'the other place?'

Yes.

SqueakyDinosaur · 07/12/2022 09:37

This thread sets out a personal experience of how hard it can be for young, vulnerably-housed women to avoid sexual exploitation up to and including prostitution. It’s pretty grim.

twitter.com/guillotesque/status/1599717594516189184?s=20&t=Zfo9WtcvKUIVvdoBZpZZPw

Plasticfreefantastic · 07/12/2022 10:19

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 07/12/2022 07:07

I agree. Maybe there should be an award for the funniest contribution, if there isn't already? Reading the nominees would be a tonic, as well.

This article sums up the deadening impact of TRSOH nicely, I think:

Intolerance leads to McDonald’s of the mind.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3983d1b8-70ea-11ed-a188-d2cb771901d6?shareToken=e2cb485aa337fbb57494a6197ccc8a000_

I'd love to see a humour award. So many funny women.

And I also agree with posts pointing out to a male poster that he's not listening to the points being made. It would be great instead of just leaving the thread if he listened to the points being made.

ArabellaScott · 07/12/2022 10:32

Thanks for that thread, Squeaky. Any woman who has ever been homeless or precariously housed will find that very recognisable.

Girls are groomed from birth to be decorative, sexually available entertainment for men. We're taught our power rests in our bodies, so long as they are judged attractive and desirable. We are raised to believe that 'selling ourselves' is a valid and healthy choice. A performer, a model, a bride. All suggest to girls that a desirable life path is to sell their body, their image, their sexual availability. To be a passive object men can project onto, and/or use.

These are common 'dreams' sold to little girls and spun on across all the media. Beauty pageants, swimsuit competitions, fashion spreads, cheerleaders, porn, strippers, etc. Servicing the male gaze/male desire is a huge industry. Porn culture is pervasive. We absorb the message that our sexual desirability is equivalent to our worth very, very deeply.

If one considers society as set up with males holding much of the power (economic, political, physical), and virtually all girls encouraged to fit into that unequal power structure by ensuring they be attractive, available, and for sale, then I'm not really sure whether meaningful consent is really possible.

In an unequal relationship - teacher/student, boss/employee, etc, we don't consider that it's possible. I cannot see how a male punter/woman dynamic is any less unequal. The sex act (or lack of) seems almost irrelevant - it's the power dynamic that is crucial, and that is uneven. I'd say it's degrading, risky, dangerous, frightening, for any woman to have 'sold herself' to a man. Always.

ArabellaScott · 07/12/2022 10:39

This is a good article on consent and prostitution.

nordicmodelnow.org/facts-about-prostitution/fact-prostitution-is-predicated-on-foregoing-the-right-to-refuse-sex/

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 07/12/2022 10:50

A further note. I don't generally go arpund boasting about what Lady Bountiful acts I have performed this week. But seeing as I started last night, it's time to drum home a serious point.

I earn approx £11 per hour for a 37.5 work week. By the standards I grew up in, this is the heights of luxury, and I feel pretty well off at the moment, so I donate to the local outreach service that works with prostituted women and the food bank. I don't ask anyone there to get me off first.

If I can afford to do that, the men who spend their disposable income on prostitution also can. They're choosing not to. They're choosing to use their current financial situation to extort sex acts from women who wouldn't have anything to do with them otherwise.

One of the things feminism means is having the same moral expectations of men as we do of women and this is an example where society doesn't.

CyanCyan · 07/12/2022 10:51

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son. Even the left-wing media peddles this fantasy.

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 10:55

CyanCyan · 07/12/2022 10:51

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son. Even the left-wing media peddles this fantasy.

Tasslehoof is one of the refugees from the Guardian associated forum that arrived here last week so this makes sense.

CyanCyan · 07/12/2022 10:58

Quite a few of us are refugees from that place @Sequenca but we don’t all hold the same views. And FWIW I can’t stand the guardian.

Kucingsparkles · 07/12/2022 11:01

CyanCyan · 07/12/2022 10:51

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son. Even the left-wing media peddles this fantasy.

WTF? That's completely boak-worthy, on so many levels. 🤢

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 07/12/2022 11:37

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 10:55

Tasslehoof is one of the refugees from the Guardian associated forum that arrived here last week so this makes sense.

Well he's demonstrated a spectacular inability to read the room then.
He comes across as an MRA troll, and we've seen off many of those over the years on this board.

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:46

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 10:55

Tasslehoof is one of the refugees from the Guardian associated forum that arrived here last week so this makes sense.

Why does it make sense by the way? I am interested in why you say this? What have you seen that would make that response yesterday make sense?

Because it was a Guardian associated forum?

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 11:53

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:46

Why does it make sense by the way? I am interested in why you say this? What have you seen that would make that response yesterday make sense?

Because it was a Guardian associated forum?

It makes sense that Cyan would feel that

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son.

when the man who has used prostitutes saying such in this thread has come here recently from the Guardian related forum.

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:56

By the way.

There are actually quite a number of male posters on FWR.

Most seem to be able to fully respect that women are not to be exploited for sex or reproductive purposes.

I am surprised that any male who wishes to support the rights women and girls would attempt to portray push back to these exploitative practices as being 'pontification.'

Sorry, but using the term 'pontification' shows just who is a misogynist and who isn't.

And no. I don't think last night will 'just blow over'. Why the fuck should it?

Please tell us why the fuck should last night's posts 'just blow over'?

CyanCyan · 07/12/2022 12:04

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 11:53

It makes sense that Cyan would feel that

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son.

when the man who has used prostitutes saying such in this thread has come here recently from the Guardian related forum.

Why would that make sense? I read the article off the back of an AIBU thread in the summer. It had nothing to do with the forum.

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 07/12/2022 12:09

Here's a Guardian thread article that will set some Guardian readers aflutter (And possibly their teeth on edge), because it actually says you can tell someone is a female from just her teeth:

www.theguardian.com/science/2022/dec/06/medieval-female-burial-site-found-near-harpole-is-most-significant-ever-discovered-in-uk

I'm another refugee from the other talk forum, although I've been lurking and sometimes posting on Mumsnet for years as well, under a different name.

It all grew out of a Graun talk board, but most of us, I think no longer read it for obvious reasons.

I've now got to get my husband to stop subscribing to it – I think he's on the cusp, and possibly the articles about Hadley's treatment could be what tips him over.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/12/2022 12:10

Justifying using sex workers as unofficial social workers rankled. And scanning back to just before this man entered the room (which tbf initially was answering a question) is why:

Another common theme running through several of today's threads is how people who think they're ever so Progressive and on The Right Side of History see women not as proper people, but partially-sentient support bipeds for servicing the desires of the real people (i.e. men).

I guess we weren't expecting a live demo of this phenomenon.

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 12:11

Sequenca · 07/12/2022 11:53

It makes sense that Cyan would feel that

This discussion is giving me flashbacks to that Guardian column from the mum who jollily sought out a nice, polite young prostitute for her autistic son.

when the man who has used prostitutes saying such in this thread has come here recently from the Guardian related forum.

ah. I see.

Either way. I suspect that a poster who posted as they did last night will always show their nature. Whether they name change or stick with the name they have.

I would be surprised if they had not posted misogynist posts in the past.

The other males that are regulars on this board seem to not fall into that style of posting and quite a few have been posting here for years.

Then again, maybe it will surprise new posters that there ARE male regulars on this board.

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 12:12

ErrolTheDragon · 07/12/2022 12:10

Justifying using sex workers as unofficial social workers rankled. And scanning back to just before this man entered the room (which tbf initially was answering a question) is why:

Another common theme running through several of today's threads is how people who think they're ever so Progressive and on The Right Side of History see women not as proper people, but partially-sentient support bipeds for servicing the desires of the real people (i.e. men).

I guess we weren't expecting a live demo of this phenomenon.

But Errol, we got it.

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 12:24

I also want to ask, are we expected to make accommodations for this poster?

Would we be expected to make accommodations for any other male poster who just randomly turned up and posted like this on FWR? And then tells others that the posters on FWR board are just 'pontificating'?

Winterborne74 · 07/12/2022 12:31

Are women getting angrier?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-63874001

I know I am.

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