Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

Yes. Only fans were to make money you just have to degrade yourself. Just do acts to keep those punters happy…

And I don't think a lot of them are aware that these things will escalate, to compete they will need to go further, degrade themselves more, do more extreme things etc

I also suspect that many people who do this kind of work probably do tell others that it’s fine, because, well, nobody wants to admit how shit everything really might be.

You suspect right. At a fairly recent Nordic Model Now meeting the ex-prostitutes said that when in it you have to keep insisting that it's fine, you can handle it, you're in control. To ask women who are still being prostituted to admit the horror is extremely cruel and for their own sanity they won't do it.

One woman said that she has only got angrier about what happened to her the more years that have past since she managed to get out.

Hey Hoff, did you have to sell your arsehole and mouth to the highest bidding dick to stay alive while you were squatting?

Do you think that I'd you had you might have convinced yourself that you were OK with that in order to survive mentally too?

I suspect they don’t.

And I suspect that in this era of digital signatures, that if their content escapes onto other platforms their images will be held and searchable by those with the means in the future.

There are similar reports from ex porn stars too.

I think Hoff needs to read the thread in relationships.

Prostitution takes away every bit of a woman's choice, leaving the punter and the pimp with all the choice in the world. Prostitution is what is done to women, not something women would choose if they had an alternative.

• Fiona Broadfoot, sex-trade survivor.

When boys at Eton and Harrow have prostitution suggested to them as a career choice, and their parents cheer them to offer blowjobs for cash, I will believe that prostitution is a choice.

I saw the thread about sex work and unpunting a couple of months ago, I think I linked it to a thread on FWR.

The twitter thread posted by a pp led me to a site where former sex workers posted their stories. I read a couple, it was very depressing. The ones I read, they seemed to just fall into it and then it was like mission creep. One couldn't make her rent and her nice, fairly personable, landlord made an offer. Then his friend, the money was good but the lies cost. Then can't afford to be choosy, and so it escalates. This woman seemed to have avoided the worst of drugs and pimps. But was very lucky to get out.

Re. My transphobic things...bravo!

I've seen some Mr Menno's stuff on YouTube. I know he did a pastiche Doh Ray Me about pronouns. I hope I didn't subconsciously plagiarise him. Apologies if I did.

Now I've got, if you've got a cock and you're wearing a frock.....that's MRA, If you 'just want to pee' but your pronouns are 'she'......that's MRA.

This thread isn't going quite as I'd expected... seems to be an exchange between a bloke who doesn't care what we think and we don't care what he thinks.

I'm going to butt in at a tangent to remind everyone to visit the petitions board once in a while - there's often stuff worth supporting, some explicitly feminist, some not.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard

Another thing: women who have suffered abuse often respond to this deep trauma by 1. risky behaviour and 2. hypersexualised behaviour.

A form of self harm. A way of trying to turn the bad experiences into something good, justify them, minimise them. Or even just a way to relive them, over and over, like a bad dream, in the way humans sometimes do when they are traumatised.

Am I still on a feminism board? Do we really have a man mansplaining using prostituted women on a women's rights thread?

JFC.

Thanks Errol

My tangent is anyone going to run FWR women of the year poll and awards this year?

This. Everyone I've ever known in an ongoing abusive situation (which being prostituted is!) only grasped the full horror of what had been done to them once they were out of it.

This is how our minds protect us.

My tangent is anyone going to run FWR women of the year poll and awards this year?

Oh gosh, it's December ... that still leaves quite a bit of time for new contenders at the rate things develop! But would be good for someone to start another soon. Can't remember what rules (if there were any) we had before.

yes elsie because I suspect those women moved from survival mode and ‘whatever I am fine’ mode to processing what actually happened to them and understanding just what they had allowed people to do to them.

Seriously?

If you've never known anyone in the "business" you have no right to tell me what other people I know have said or done

I'll drop this now as it's obviously contentious, but it's not about a man knowing more about women than they do, it's just someone who knew sex workers who worked in a favourable environment (which can be rare, tbh) and others who destroyed themselves

I also know many men who destroyed themselves through drugs, but the sudden increase in income from sex work isn't great for drug addicts

You can ignore reports and evidence to the contrary to continue to justify your abhorrent stance but it won't change the fact that prostitution is incredibly harmful to the women who are prostitutes and to women as a sex class. Yes I think you should drop it.

You are still disgusting for trying to rent women's bodies twice and continuing to mansplain to us that it's fine and empowering.

So hoff if it was a safe environment, did you then join the group and allow punters to exploit your body ?

if not, why not?

Seriously, I cannot believe you are still here.

Paying for consent is coerced consent.

So you're just going to ignore all the discussion around why prostituted women were probably telling you that everything is just fine with their lives?

You totally bought sex and can't face the reality of the harm you did.

"Favourable environment", "Safe" FFS it would be laughable if it weren't rage inducing.

Just speak to women who have chosen that path; it varies, but they are in control in well-regulated environments

I'm recounting stuff from real women who have made different choices to the norm, some of whom benefited from it, others who really didn't

So many women to choose from already.

Take your 'recounting' and your 'norm' and put it in the bin.