Women's rights general conversations

[Kucingsparkles]

This is an experimental thread, all input much appreciated!

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Right, bring on the flames or flowers! <cowers>

www.independent.co.uk/tv/lifestyle/cambridge-dictionary-woman-gender-definition-b2244579.html

LIght blue touchpaper...

Can I just say excellent use of stars in this post. Looks lovely.

I was impressed with the stars too. How does one do that?

Thanks - done with symbols on my phone keyboard. Traditional asterisks make the formatting go weird.

Apologies for confusing references to the Old Place - we'll probably get over it soon, and it's lovely to have new people to talk to.

I've just come across this marvellous quote:

“If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.” – Abigail Adams

I can go with that!

Thank you for the summary, @Tricyrtis2022

Maybe this has cropped before but if not I commend to the house https://newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/p/invisible-women-default-male-miracles?utmsource=twitter&utmmcampaign=autoshare&r=e1j .

Slightly off at a tangent - I work from home and usually have James O'Brien on LBC radio in the background. I agree with him about a lot and can't help laughing at the way he allows/ helps people to tie themselves up in knots over things like Brexit, racism, BLM, Trump, and refugees (which is what he's doing now). But yesterday he did what he does from time to time. Displayed His Beard.

The target of his ire was people who talk about Lefty Snowflakes and The Woke, and I'm sure he meant Bad Righties but still said - in his lengthy general diatribe to a hypothetical opponent - I can't remember the exact words but very much along these lines: "Yeah but you're scared of pronouns. Think about that, you call other people snowflakes but you are Scared. Of. Pronouns.”

This encapsulates the things that I find unforgivable about people who otherwise share so much of my worldview: the laziness, the intellectual incuriosity, the ignorant, subconscious misogyny. As I say, he doubtless thinks that he’s attacking Rightwing Trumpists. The misogyny is his apparently failing even to notice the women’s groups shouting from the rooftops about this stuff.

I need to read the invisible women blog more often, though I'm not sure it's good for my blood pressure. The Alzheimer's part maybe merits it's own thread either on here or AIBU.

(Autocorrect stuck an apostrophe into the possessive 'its' . I corrected it, hit Post and the bloody apostrophe reappeared. I had to have several tries to get the one above correct. At least it's stopped turning male into Male now though. )

I increasingly think of JOB as the personification of the Old Place (sorry thecrack) - we share a view on so many things, and he's funny and witty. And then suddenly you see behind the mask and realise that he's also smug, angry, intolerant, deliberately ignorant and completely incurious (and actually a bit afraid of hearing wrongthink) about anybody who doesn't completely fit into his Good People category of indivisible Good Beliefs. In the end, he's as thought-terminatingly pseudoreligious about his Righteous Position, as anybody on the "other side" is about theirs.

Nice share @Britinme - I get CCP's Invisible Women newsletter too, and often forward them to my DDs so we can get a rousing feminist conversation going. (One of them chose to write about "Does sexism still exist?" for her English project this term - short answer YES).

English public schools have a lot to answer for, and it trickles down from the JOBs who went to poshest places and infects lots of the other men too, because of that insidious class system.

and then you get a micro Twitter thread like this from a few weeks ago

twitter.com/jembloomfield/status/1596548473352253441

some chaps do get it

I enjoyed this piece, about how everyone is 'pushing a concept'. It's got an American slant, but is translatable.

Course, it means as a feminist I also need to interrogate my own prejudices.

www.thefp.com/p/real-life-does-not-fit-the-narrative?utm_source=substack&publication_id=260347&post_id=90218674&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&action=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true

I increasingly think of JOB as the personification of the Old Place (sorry thecrack) - we share a view on so many things, and he's funny and witty. And then suddenly you see behind the mask and realise that he's also smug, angry, intolerant, deliberately ignorant and completely incurious (and actually a bit afraid of hearing wrongthink) about anybody who doesn't completely fit into his Good People category of indivisible Good Beliefs. In the end, he's as thought-terminatingly pseudoreligious about his Righteous Position, as anybody on the "other side" is about theirs.

Good call. I have a particular person in mind from when I used to post there.

Thanks for the link, it was very interesting reading and reminds me of the importance of reflecting on my own assumptions.

These lines kind of stood out to me (in the context of what we've been saying on this thread):

Not only are these narratives untrue, they’re also uninspired and formulaic. They feel engineered with a takeaway in mind, assembled from a kit—with a moral, a villain, and a hero.

It is almost as though the purpose of the stories we are told is to obscure reality, not to reveal it.

Yes, absolutely - Thought that was interesting, too.

I am with Kuc on her appraisal of JOB. I always think of him as, I mostly agree, but...
There's a smug incuriousity there. The parallel is apt.

And thecrack's link, an interesting and thoughtful piece too.

Completely unprovoked, YouTube decided I might want to watch this, it was uploaded 16 years ago

Apparently, he's a 'gymnastic clown'. The commentators having fun with pronouns at the start. When artifacts of saner times pop up, I.....well, I may never see my eyebrows again.

Part of me thinks he's funny and talented, part of me thinks he's taking the piss but I think that's because of 'womanface' and men colonising women's sport, and part of me is just...would this happen now, would the audience laugh, would he be arrested? Not because it might offend women but because it might offend men.

Linking this thread here for any newbies from the 'other place' who might not see it (depending on how you notice threads/Might get lost in the volume) or weren't here when some of this came up before.
Very relevant right now and think you'll find it very interesting.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4697658-equality-act-2010-original-evidence-and-debate

That’s exactly how I feel about him. The way he shouted KJK down when she called in completely put me off him, and was actually a catalyst for me rethinking not my views, but my approach to Brexit. Belittling people, tripping them up, shouting over them- doesn’t work, it just makes them double down and stop listening, and if that’s all you’ve got in your arsenal, maybe it’s time to stop fighting.

@DameMaud That's a really interesting thread, I found the link to Vulvamort's Twitter thread particularly illuminating.

JoB has a team of people who make sure he gets callers he can tear apart. I have seen a few examples of people who slipped through that were more than able to argue their case, he just insults them and cuts them off when this happens. He is not one of the good guys, he is part of a system giving people the illusion of open debate.