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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Equality Act 2010 original evidence and debate

18 replies

kistanbul · 13/12/2022 23:08

With all the talk about what the Equality Act really means for Trans people and women, I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the original debates back when the act was considered by parliament.

All the evidence on the bill is here: publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmpublic/cmpbequality.htm

The Press for Change evidence is particularly interesting. They’re practically GC by today’s standards! - publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmpublic/equality/memos/ucm1102.htm

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kistanbul · 13/12/2022 23:10

Some of what Stephen Whittle told the Committee is very far from what he now says the equality act means -
“We think that a line needs to be drawn, particularly in respect of single-sex services. If people are living permanently in their new gender role, they should be covered; if not, they should not be covered.”

and talking about kids who might be seeking a sex change

“Thirteen and 14-year-olds who make that statement get entwined in a huge, goal-driven medical process that does not let them get out, yet we know that 80 per cent. of young people who manifest very cross-gendered behaviour will not grow up to be trans but will grow up to be gay or lesbian.“

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmpublic/equality/090602/pm/90602s01.htm

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kistanbul · 14/12/2022 00:21

The Minister says in a later debate on the Lords -
”Clause 7 does not cover transvestites or others who choose temporarily to adopt the appearance of the opposite gender. While we do not condone anyone being treated badly because of the way in which they present themselves, it would not be appropriate to provide people who present themselves temporarily as of a gender other than their birth gender with the same protection against discrimination that is available to a person with gender dysphoria, who is somebody who has been assigned one gender at birth, but believes that they are of another gender.”

publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/text/100111-0015.htm

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JacquelinePot · 14/12/2022 06:52

Bumping this.

The government gave them an inch and they took a mile

kistanbul · 14/12/2022 09:27

Could be used in future legal cases to determine what is excluded from the Equality Act

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_(Inspector_of_Taxes)_v_Hart

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DameMaud · 14/12/2022 09:35

This is extremely interesting @kistanbul . Thank you for digging this up!
It would be great if a journalist could pick all this up and do a historical deep dive on how we got here.

DameMaud · 14/12/2022 09:52

This 2018 thread has lots on the Hansard of the 2004 GRA debate too:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3388967-Illuminating-Twitter-thread-about-the-origins-of-the-Gender-Recognition-Act.
The link to the Twitter thread doesn't work but further down there are links, on the Olympic sport section for example, that are fascinating.
Viewing the historical process of the legislation in light of where we are now is quite something!
If I was a journalist I would absolutely be writing this up

ResisterRex · 14/12/2022 14:43

Great thread. Just seen this too:

twitter.com/anyabike/status/1603036908451405824?s=46&t=6XsafcW2O1HsJiqTdupeWQ

JacquelinePot · 14/12/2022 15:04

Vulvamort's threa of threads on the GRA debates in Hansard. Please be sure to read if you haven't before.

I read this quite early on after my awakening and it was a real eye-opener

https://mobile.twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1177699186361458688?cxt=HHwWgIC79fLKg9ggAAAA

nilsmousehammer · 14/12/2022 15:29

The Twitter thread is excellent.

I also agree with the conversation further down the thread. Is transition a good thing for society? Or is it at this point becoming something actively harmful.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/12/2022 15:40

Always illuminating to see how we got here. Looking at those links it appears that the self interested openly lied to parliament / legislators while behind the scenes (a la Denton's report) lobbied and "rewarded" politicians for doing the secret deals without democratic consent. When nobody said no apart from small numbers of women, they became so over confident that they then launched successful onslaughts on child safeguarding and women's rights to privacy and safety from men.

ResisterRex · 14/12/2022 16:25

I forgot about Pepper v Hart. I hope there are clever lawyers and sharp SpAds on the case because it seems as though there are implications.

The other PC to consider is disability. The EQA does not - and specifically does not - allow individuals to self-ID as disabled.

We hear so much that getting a GRC is "invasive" and "traumatic". Well, many of the processes around help for disabled people are as well. Perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly. But they exist because we have to have clear distinctions between someone with poor eyesight and someone who's blind or partially sighted:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/570382/EqualityyAct2010-disabilityydefinition.pdf

We have those because we do different things for disabled people to help make their lives easier and to make things more level and fair. Fair. Not "inclusive" - another problem so far as the EQA is concerned as it's not in it but it bandied around like it is. Fairness is part of it though.

Social groups have to have definitions in order to exist. Where things are uneven or unfair, we put things in place to try and make them less uneven and more fair.

Where there are implications, so too must there be tools to deal with them. Like I said, let's hope clever people are dealing with this because if they're not then we may as well go back 100 years or more in terms of women's rights and child safety.

DameMaud · 14/12/2022 17:09

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/2004/may/25/olympic-athletes

Here's the Olympic sports one

DameMaud · 14/12/2022 17:31

www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

Hopefully link works. Good to include here maybe?
Denton's report. Pages 16-21 are key I think.

There are other old threads on here and Linehan' substack but thought it might be good for simplicity just to pop the original here

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 14/12/2022 21:27

From the Vulvamort megathread, I suggest this is a particularly important one to not only read but act on. Check your NHS record.

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1062360988702466048?

mb2512cat · 15/12/2022 19:52

Thank you for posting these links. Fancy.

mb2512cat · 15/12/2022 19:52

Fascinating!

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