Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Hadley Freeman on Woman's Hour shortly

271 replies

RoyalCorgi · 05/12/2022 09:49

Talking about why she left the Guardian!

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001fvx6

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MangyInseam · 05/12/2022 10:36

DrBlackbird · 05/12/2022 10:18

It is just so sad though. The Guardian was / is needed as a corrective to The Torygraph and the Daily Fail. But it’s chosen to die on a hill detrimental to girls and women.

The left in general is so stuck in this quagmire of always thinking of themselves as and/or wanting to support all progressive projects. That was laudable until more recently and being swept up and blindsided by the trans ‘ gender ideology as being part of the progressive agenda.

The extreme gender ideology is the best gift the far right could ever have in dividing the left and stoking culture wars ultimately to the progressive agenda.

Yes, Hadley… completely agree it’s reality based feminism, not bloody GC feminism.

Was it though? Laudable?

The fact is that they should always have been taking social controversies seriously, and if their standard has been, it's progressive so we support it without asking questions, that has never been good. Progressive causes don't spring forth fully formed. Even something as broadly accepted now as racial issues - they've similarly accepted CT and id pol approaches uncritically as well, which has led to some pretty shit analysis.

DazzlePaintedBattlePants · 05/12/2022 10:39

Listening on catchup. The Guardian really hate women, don't they?

Original poster
RoyalCorgi · 05/12/2022 10:41

Hadley was terrific.

Emma got terribly defensive about Woman's Hour (unnecessarily), and then asked Hadley quite aggressively whether she thought Kath Viner was unfit to be editor of the Guardian. I suppose it would have made a great coup for WH if she'd said yes, but obviously she wasn't going to, and it was gratuitous of Emma to ask her because it took her away from the main argument. But Hadley did a great job.

OP posts:
nauticant · 05/12/2022 10:43

I'll take an aggressive EB so long as it is applied across the board. For example if Mermaids inexplicably decided to put someone up for her to interview.

BloodAndFire · 05/12/2022 10:48

DrBlackbird · 05/12/2022 10:18

It is just so sad though. The Guardian was / is needed as a corrective to The Torygraph and the Daily Fail. But it’s chosen to die on a hill detrimental to girls and women.

The left in general is so stuck in this quagmire of always thinking of themselves as and/or wanting to support all progressive projects. That was laudable until more recently and being swept up and blindsided by the trans ‘ gender ideology as being part of the progressive agenda.

The extreme gender ideology is the best gift the far right could ever have in dividing the left and stoking culture wars ultimately to the progressive agenda.

Yes, Hadley… completely agree it’s reality based feminism, not bloody GC feminism.

The Guardian were also very happy to throw Jews out and to leave progressive Jews with no political home. Not surprising really given Seumas Milne's close relationship with it. Hadley being Jewish was just as much a problem as her being gender-critical (obviously this being WH there's more focus on gender issues).

That started years earlier though, they were awful on antisemitism back in the early 2000s when I was a student.

pattihews · 05/12/2022 10:50

Yes, EB risks alienating people when she goes so aggressively for GC speakers in order to cover her own back.

But lovely to hear everything we've known for years confirmed in Hadley's own words. I used to be a Guardian reader and now it's out there and there's no excuse for pretending you didn't know what was going on I'm going to be giving the side-eye to anyone I know who still reads it. If it won't report on one of the biggest scandals affecting women and girls in living history, what else won't it report on?

MorrisZapp · 05/12/2022 10:51

She said much of the same stuff on Saturday too, on Times Radio.

Choccolatte · 05/12/2022 10:52

Thought it was a well debated interview. Emma needed to push certain bits to make sure all is exposed with no wriggle room.

nauticant · 05/12/2022 10:56

Was HF on Times Radio on Saturday or this on yesterday MorrisZapp?

www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/show/20221204-12809/2022-12-04 (from 53 minutes)

WarriorN · 05/12/2022 10:56

I love an aggressive Emma, all can stand up to it

Agree it's naff the transwomen are not given the same grilling. But to me that shows their weaknesses.

WarriorN · 05/12/2022 10:59

I'm listening again!

WinterTrees · 05/12/2022 10:59

So many TRAs on Twitter bleating about the lack of balance because no trans person was asked to speak. Totally missing the point that Hadley Freeman was invited on to talk about her own experience of being effectively forced out of her job as a journalist, because of the stories she wanted to cover.

PronounsBaby · 05/12/2022 11:04

I think Emma did a great job. The more she pushed back the better the interviewee is able to make a more robust point. She wasn't overly aggressive in my view.

DrBlackbird · 05/12/2022 11:08

The fact is that they should always have been taking social controversies seriously, and if their standard has been, it's progressive so we support it without asking questions, that has never been good. Progressive causes don't spring forth fully formed. Even something as broadly accepted now as racial issues - they've similarly accepted CT and id pol approaches uncritically as well, which has led to some pretty shit analysis.

I’m thinking more broadly of support for civil rights, women’s rights, worker’s rights, gay rights, awareness of environmental concerns as ‘laudable’. Not sure about the point being made that causes do not spring forth fully formed.

No, of course they don’t. Critical thinking was, had to be, applied to those issues long before as well as during the times that they could be discussed, challenged, amended.

Yet, critical thinking, IMO, seems to have suddenly been swapped for unthinking acceptance when it comes to gender ideology. Except for the work done on these threads.

WarriorN · 05/12/2022 11:10

PronounsBaby · 05/12/2022 11:04

I think Emma did a great job. The more she pushed back the better the interviewee is able to make a more robust point. She wasn't overly aggressive in my view.

I'm listening again; she's forensic. Which is really important.

ArabellaScott · 05/12/2022 11:11

nauticant · 05/12/2022 10:08

Whenever she wanted to write about gender identity ideology the Guardian always said no but they reasons for this always changed. The last excuse was "we don't follow other newspapers' stories".

The ban in the Guardian writing about gender identity ideology was across the board for all journalists while trans activists were platformed.

Shock
WhiskersPete · 05/12/2022 11:11

My goodness. Upper management at the Guardian told her they only wanted men writing about womens' rights regarding trans issues as it doesn't go down well on social media otherwise.

DameMaud · 05/12/2022 11:17

WarriorN · 05/12/2022 10:25

Just listening now on listen again! 😍

Help!!! I can't find it!

Original poster
RoyalCorgi · 05/12/2022 11:19

WinterTrees · 05/12/2022 10:59

So many TRAs on Twitter bleating about the lack of balance because no trans person was asked to speak. Totally missing the point that Hadley Freeman was invited on to talk about her own experience of being effectively forced out of her job as a journalist, because of the stories she wanted to cover.

They bleat all the time, about everything. Is there ever an occasion when trans activists aren't bleating about something? To paraphrase PG Wodehouse, it is never difficult to distinguish between a trans activist and a normal, well-adjusted human being.

OP posts:
nauticant · 05/12/2022 11:20

Unless you opened Sounds when WH was being broadcast, it's not currently available but should be maybe in an hour or two at this link:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001fvx6

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 05/12/2022 11:22

That was awesome! I mean the interview, it was bloody awful hearing all the details, no women allowed to cover it, TRA lobby groups allowed to come in and attack her while she was away and no one thought to mention it, what the fuck were the Guardian thinking??

Yeah of course it's "why wasn't a trans person allowed on?" from crybully twitter. Because it's about a woman talking about her experiences regarding censorship, how she was treated and why she felt there was no option but to walk away. It's not all about trans. Coincidentally, the name of the group The Guardian welcomed with open arms behind her back, and allowed them to hold court while they slagged her off. Don't see TRA twitter having a problem with that!

DameMaud · 05/12/2022 11:22

nauticant · 05/12/2022 11:20

Unless you opened Sounds when WH was being broadcast, it's not currently available but should be maybe in an hour or two at this link:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001fvx6

Thanks Nauticant
(I have to wait an hour!!!! Worried they'll pull it...)

loislovesstewie · 05/12/2022 11:24

I read the Guardian from the age of 13 for well over 40 years. I stopped reading when they started to censor on these subjects. I am politically homeless and also unable to read a paper that I feel reflects my politics and beliefs. Pretty rubbish situation.

GCAcademic · 05/12/2022 11:26

nauticant · 05/12/2022 10:12

HF saying that a very senior Guardian bod said, explicitly: You are not allowed to write about gender. I do not want women to be writing about gender.

This was in front of witnesses.

My god. It's even worse than I'd imagined.

Manderleyagain · 05/12/2022 11:28

A HF bashing gathering instigates by external lobbying groups and people was held at the Guardian when she was away on business and this was withheld from her and when she learned about it HR said that it would cause trouble to make any statement.

This bit shocked me even now. A few ýears ago she was able to write some (roughly speaking) gc pieces. When she was in America for work a trans org came in to train guardian staff. The trainer waved 2 articles by hf as examples of transphobia. After that things changed towards her but she was never told about it. Someone who was there told her 9 months later.