Girl Got A New Haircut. Father Shocked By The Things Strangers Now Say To Her.

[Onnabugeisha]

From US HuffPost

My Daughter Got A New Haircut. I'm Shocked By The Things Strangers Now Say To Her.

"Our 12-year-old daughter would like to pee without being harassed. Lately, she can’t seem to escape it."

Article: www.huffpost.com/entry/daughter-short-haircut-harassment_n_6384dd5ae4b06ef4a546c8a5?utm_campaign=share_email&ncid=other_email_o63gt2jcad4

Squirrel!

I wonder if OP has much contact with teenagers. I think we are beginning to hear from the current teenaged girls that they most definitely don't want to use toilets with any males in them.

But they're on the wrong side of the 'power balance' all ways - less power (literally) than a male, disempowered from voicing their concerns.

Fuck! I have walked into or just about walked into the male toilet by accident too many times to count

future son in law walked into the ladies the other day….we had to leave the bar he was so mortified 😀😀😀

it was a cuban bar and he got his senorita, senor and senora confused

Not sure if this is relevant but, some fortunate(?) 'teenagers' can be pretty old. My sister would loose her job if she doesn't verify the age of people who look under 25 yo.

I am still stuck on this:

"faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs."

What is it that many people here believe?

That males cannot be females?
That males should respect the needs of all females and stay out of single sex spaces even if they identify as a woman, because they are male still and never are they going to be a female? (and by the way, we know there are transitioned males who DO respect female's needs and DO stay out of female single sex spaces)
That people should present themselves however they wish and that doesn't impact their gender identity?
That females with short hair are NOT males?
That the majority of the world's population are not trans and they are also not feminists, yet will believe the first two statements? Yet OP insists that anyone who would question a person in a toilet MUST be a feminist.
That people should not show aggressive behaviour towards a child who is using the toilets unless that child is about to do something that is harmful to others?

What OP is trying to convince readers of is that

-only feminists would be asking children or teen's if they were in the wrong toilet

-to question politely is an act of confrontation

-to question at all is an act of hate

-that it is feminist's fault that anyone questions a child or teen in the toilet and that everyone should ignore that girls with short hair have always been questioned entering into the female toilets

-that the males who made these demands, that were accepted without any consultation with females, are in no way to blame for women and girls feeling even more less secure in their toilets and single sex spaces

-that people who want laws and policies to support the prioritisation of sex in all areas that matter over gender are 'ideological', and those beliefs are controversial and seemingly not based in science that has been known for millennia and proven for centuries or in facts and statistics used for safeguarding

-that females do not have a high degree of probability of knowing a person's sex by looking at them, seeing them walk and listening to them speak

-that feminists embrace gender stereotypes and actually use those 'stereotypes' to predict the sex of people.

Have I got that right Onnabugeisha?

Is that what you are trying to convince readers of?

I'm slow off the mark, I know, but Onna Bugeisha - female martial artist. Where they all trans do you think? Or have they been Manga'd into acceptably trans stereotypes?

Then again, surely Onna Musha would be more stereotypically female?

Sorry, I'll pop off that trangent! [yes, I know]

Oh, ffs. Do you actually know any women?

My mother in law isn't a feminist of any description, doesn't know what gender is and has never heard the term gender critical.

She would definitely challenge any male in the ladies without even thinking.

She is, without doubt, representative of most women.

Women generally know why a male wants to access women in the ladies. Gender critical woman know how they're doing it.

That's why you're talking directly to them.

Oh, and by the way, it's a complete waste of time. Perhaps you should have noticed by now that women being told to stfu by randoms online, only makes them talk louder.

There has been a few usernames in the past that are female anime characters that have used the same tactics as this poster does.

Still waiting for any kind of answer Onnabugeisha. It would very help the argument that this is not about stereotypes.

And while you're at it, can I ask why you think this is suddenly an issue? Short haired women have been using their own spaces since forever. Maybe challenged sometimes if people make a mistake.

So what? Why is it suddenly news? And why is it suddenly terrible, instead of irritating?

*very much help

True. I was just a tad slow on this one.

So exactly how is a child of any threat to your safety? Why can’t you leave children alone and limit yourself to confronting any adults you think are males?

"Child" covers anyone from a toddler to a hulking 6'5 seventeen yr old with full beard. Prepubertal kids you probably wouldn't be able to tell, or I wouldn't.

By teen age some of DC's classmates were built like rugby players; they were rugby players indeed. They would be intimidating to teenaged or younger girls even if as mum I suspect they're still quite young and harmless. Of course it's okay to ask them if they'd gone in the wrong door.

If they're sweet and innocent like my 13 yr old they'd want to know so they can get out. If they're the creepy kid who wanted to peep under the cubicles (in my form at school aged 15ish) they should be challenged. Absolutely no way they are mistakeable for girls. If there was any doubt, i.e. prepubertal or very covered up, I wouldn't say anything. But mostly it's bleeding obvious and I don't mean hair length.

That reminds me, can anyone cover my shift for the ladies at Knutsford services next Sunday? I can leave the angry eyebrows at the newsagent kiosk.

@RoseslnTheHospital

YYY to your post.

I look back at the unisex haircuts of the 70s and even the short hairstyles of the 90s and wonder what the heck has happened.

@Onnabugeisha

If this happened in the US, then you need to take the context into account.

The context being a very strident pro Trans lobby using everything they possibly can to discredit the GC opposition.

In other words, this alleged haircut and the toilet incidents may or may not have happened.

Its a lot easier to mistake a female for a male than a child for an adult.

That's good to know. Which means the constant harassment I experienced from 11-16 from grown men wasn't the honest mistake they seemed to pretend it was. And these experiences formed my opinion that I'd rather my DD had some safe places without penises in them.

I do wonder if your concern for children's safety extends to girls safely using private spaces.

There have been many questions left unanswered by the OP.

I, too, am interested in hearing the answer for this.

I also would like to see answers to these questions that I asked yesterday.

Do you agree OP that by now, at the end of 2022, males absolutely have no way to have avoided the news that their presence in female single sex spaces may cause distress to female people of all ages?

Do you think any male that continues to use a female single sex space, of which a toilet it one, does so knowing that they might cause a female using that space distress, and therefore does so deliberately?

How respectful is that?

How respectful is it that any male would continue to use a female single sex space knowing that it causes a female distress?

Children are being caught in the crossfire because parents terrified of having a gay child- because US society is stupid about that- are medicalising gender non conformity.
The US needs to have a serious word with itself about it being ok to grow up gay and/or be gender nonconforming. It was in the 70s and 80s. And then the pornification of womenhood started followed by forced teaming of LGB with TQ+.
I agree OP that we should leave kids alone. But don't blame the push back on TQ+ bullshit for this.

Thank you to all who agreed no matter what your views, children should not be harassed in the toilets for being gender nonconforming (ie you think they’re a boy in the women’s toilets).

Sadly, a few avowed GC feminists here on MN have stated that they would harass a child in the women’s toilets (and perhaps have done so?), the lowest age for challenge is apparently 8. This is in line with newspaper reports of incidents and academic research on the subject as to who exactly is targeting children. As expected, they’ve used “gender ideology” as the justification for their abuse of children, which is pathetic.

@Datun and @Helleofabore you won’t be getting any answers to your egregious “whataboutery” questions as they were obvious attempts to derail the thread away from the subject of ‘everyone can we please agree to leave the kids alone.’

I don’t care about adults squaring up to other adults in toilets, that’s your business. This thread was about children being caught up in this. And no, not hulking 17 and 364day old male rugby players with six o‘clock shadows, but children like the one in the article- a 12yr old girl. Somehow I don’t think those of you who would/do publicly abuse children would square up to a 17 and 364day old male rugby player in the woman’s toilets because generally it’s cowards picking on those smaller and weaker than them that target children.

To the GC women who agreed with me that children should be left out of it, thank you again and I hope I can rely on you to challenge any extremists in your midst that think attacks on children are in any way justified. I know if I see any woman harassing a child, I will be defending said child even though I’m a small, disabled woman.

Oh. I see. You have now pivoted from 'confront' to 'harass' and 'attack'.

Asking a valid question has now become 'harassing' someone. And 'attacks'. And the women who would 'attack' a gender non-conforming teen are now cowards who would not ask the exact same polite enquiry of a 17 and 364 day old male rugby player?

You do keep pivoting when you are called out on your appalling tactics. However, you are still attempting to use cognitive distortions, including generalisations, to convince people because your arguments are poor.

Do you ever wonder why your arguments rely on emotional manipulation only? Including the appeals for sympathy and forced teaming now too.

YES onnabug I WOULD ask the exact same polite enquiry of a 17 and 364 day old male rugby player. Because as many others on this very thread have told you, we are very good at sexing people, including teenagers. Just a reminder, that many of us have teenagers in our every day lives, they are not strange beings that we can not tell the sex off.

And if onnabug a male who is nearly an adult cannot respond to a polite question without violent or aggressive behaviour, then that shows us exactly why we do not want that male in that space.

We may not be able to identify a very small %'s sex. And there may be males coming in but it is the same old cyclical discussion.

Males who know that their presence may cause distress to female people and who respect female people, have told us that they would find other solutions. So only males who are deliberately seeking to distress females, or who have been assured by others that those distressed females do not count, would be in that single sex space in the first place.

You cannot have it both ways.

To the GC women who agreed with me that children should be left out of it

I think you have missed the ironic twisting of your own words by some posters on this thread.

Yes.... We agree that children should be left out of this. Completely left out of it. Leave our children and teenagers alone. Please. Please do this.

Stop using our children to progress your own political agenda.

the lowest age for challenge is apparently 8

What are you trying to twist now?

Fuck this is tedious. I really can only assume you have never had the day to day responsibility for raising any child.

It is around that age in many places, and in different countries, that there is either a societal norm or signage on facilities stating that males around this age is about the limit that they can enter a female single sex space.

Having been in many swimming and sports changing rooms that are open plan and communal with no individual cubicles I have seen signs around that age but others have told me that often it is societal norms that also come into play.

And yes, despite extremist assertions that they don't exist, communal single sex changing rooms without individual cubicles do exist. Some even have showers with transparent or nearly transparent curtains of the cheapest plastic.

So, yes. '8' is a pretty well known age. Maybe read some threads about this on other parts of MN. The consensus is pretty clear.

So the subject of this thread is ‘everyone can we please agree to leave the kids alone.’ Is that right OP?

"To the GC women who agreed with me that children should be left out of it, thank you again and I hope I can rely on you to challenge any extremists"

Well it looks as though we can agree on something. I expect that all the GC women on here would agree that children should be left alone when it comes to transgenderism, or more accurately, transsexualism, which is something which should be only for adults. Also that people who push the transsexual agenda onto children are indeed extremists with extremely dubious motives.

So do you also agree with us that children should not be having lessons in school in which they are supposed to decide on what their 'gender' is, with the help of graphics like the genderbread person or the gender unicorn?

Do you also agree that schools should not be changing names and pronouns of gender-confused children without their parents' knowledge?

Do you also agree that organisations like Mermaids, which encourage children to identify as transsexual because they don't conform to stereotypes, are harmful and should be banned?

We know exactly who it is who is 'targeting children'. It's not feminists. It's those who promote transsexualism to children and encourage them to identify as transsexual while they are too young to understand what that means.