Girl Got A New Haircut. Father Shocked By The Things Strangers Now Say To Her.

[Onnabugeisha]

From US HuffPost

My Daughter Got A New Haircut. I'm Shocked By The Things Strangers Now Say To Her.

"Our 12-year-old daughter would like to pee without being harassed. Lately, she can’t seem to escape it."

Article: www.huffpost.com/entry/daughter-short-haircut-harassment_n_6384dd5ae4b06ef4a546c8a5?utm_campaign=share_email&ncid=other_email_o63gt2jcad4

@Onnabugeisha the only thing you need now is a whole army of violinists and a fat lady to sing.

Datun and Helleofabore you won’t be getting any answers to your egregious “whataboutery” questions as they were obvious attempts to derail the thread away from the subject of ‘everyone can we please agree to leave the kids alone.’

I would argue that the questions posed by Datun and me, are not whataboutery despite you trying to distract people from them.

Your attempt to narrow down the topic of the thread to ‘everyone can we please agree to leave the kids alone.’ is laughable.

The topic of the thread is that a 12 year old girl got a hair cut and some people started to question the sex of that child when sex was relevant to the action - sports, overnight accommodation and sports.

As per the article you posted as some kind of gotcha.

Datun's question related to how a male knows that they are a 'female' so that they feel they are entitled to use female single sex spaces. So, entirely on scope for this very discussion.

And my question was about any male knowing that they are causing distress to the female people in the space that those women and girls expected to be just females was showing any respect to those women and girls by continuing to use the space.

We are discussing male usage of female toilets, overnight accommodations and sports - including sports changing rooms.

Your very weak attempt of 'I won't answer because 'whataboutery'' doesn't work because the questions go to the very heart of the discussion.

That if males had not demanded, and to some extent been successful, access to female single sex spaces, sports etc, we would not be in this predicament.

Yet, you have continued valiantly, but without any attempt that is convincing, to twist the blame onto feminists. Feminists, many who have teenagers and children in their everyday lives, who you seem to think would not recognise a gender non-conforming girl. Despite, what also seems to be a large proportion of the thread telling you they were gender non-conforming girls themselves.

And as usual, you seem to ignore that readers on this thread notice just what is hand waved away and not answered.

Do you think readers are so easily persuaded of your distractive distortions? Or have you portrayed them in your mind as not able see through your tactics, your pivots and your twists?

Sorry, just adding 'abuse' to the new meanings of politely ask if a person has gone into the wrong sex toilet.

That is 'confront', 'harass', 'attack' and now 'abuse'. As in 'child abuse'.

The hyperbole just keeps on rolling in.

Ok, so OP is actually fine with us challenging children as long as they're very obviously the wrong sex (aka hulking great rugby players). The hulking great rugby players I had in mind are actually 13, but they'd bowl me over so would be very intimidating to my 10yo daughter if they were strangers. Testosterone + regular sports training has obvious effects. And also they'd be mortified and want to be told if they'd accidentally gone in the wrong door.

As I wouldn't ever challenge a young person who wasn't very obviously the wrong sex, I guess OP doesn't mean us. No, nobody should be guessing the sex of an unusually immature 12 yr old girl based on their haircut. 100% agree, congrats OP perhaps you are gender critical after all.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4692556-horrible-revelations-about-the-louden-rape-case?reply=122077968

Do you understand onnabug that teenaged boys (each younger) do have a degree of associated risk for safeguarding purposes?

I think you are trying to ignore the impact on the pornification of boys. You know that the number of girls raped in UK schools is growing and is around 1 per day.

Why do you think that mother's and feminists are not aware of this?

I know a friend who was raped as a teenager by a teenaged boy. What is the age that you think that males should never be accessing female single sex spaces?

I genuinely want to know?

Do you think that the victims of this male rapist in a female toilet in Louden (I believe there were two separate incidents at two separate schools when the male was moved to another school) are just collateral?

What is an acceptable act to not bother too much about? Filming? A photo to be shared around? Inappropriate touching?

Can you tell us the solution you would suggest in the case of safeguarding women and children against teenaged boys?

To the GC women who agreed with me that children should be left out of it, thank you again and I hope I can rely on you to challenge any extremists in your midst that think attacks on children are in any way justified. I know if I see any woman harassing a child, I will be defending said child even though I’m a small, disabled woman.

You wouldn't defend a child against a man? Odd since 90% of the serious threat to children comes from men.

One little old lady asking me if I was in the right loo as an 11 yo was a lot less scary than the men who sexually harassed me from that age. Including in school uniform.

I suppose women are easier to defend against.

As a 5'7 11 year old, I remember being pinned down in the snow during my 1st year of secondary school so a shorter boy could "kiss" me. Given half our year's rugby team were holding me, multiple boys took a turn since my mouth was accessible. Despite me being soaking wet, pissed off and bruised...it was all OK because they had mistletoe (according to the head of year..in fact I think they got into more trouble for acquiring the mistletoe than effectively assaulting me) . That was over 30 years ago at a British Forces School abroad...the boys were only marginally better than the soldiers for the comments and the stares. Yet they were children and no, I wouldn't want them in the toilets with my daughter.

Whilst I got off lightly that day, a few bruises, wet hair...it was the fear of how weak I was despite running and playing hockey compared to them that lingered. I knew I was weaker than adult males (my dad's boss liked to wrestle with me in my bedroom...my parents weren't very good at safeguarding) and the wing commander's eldest son had won races at the squadron sports day carrying me over his shoulder but the realisation that my peers already outpaced me despite the fact I was taller, terrified me. I suspect boys are on average much worse now.

As a tall child with short hair and a tendency for blue/green/brown clothing, the only people I remember missexing me were male. Sadly enough though I was disappointed when puberty hit and I could no longer escape being seen as female and fuckable (even as an 11 year old) by men. I even got hit on in my Brownie uniform (back when it was the hideous dress/bobble hat combo).

I'm so sorry for little you dinosaurate. That the little shits assaulted you, and that the grown ups apparently thought it was fine. Even being carried around in races - were you on board with that? That doesn't sound okay to me.

Even without being assaulted, it's a horrible realisation isn't it, that however big and strong you are, boys + testosterone can run rings round you now. My parents were all about girls can do anything, beat the boys etc, and then suddenly you just can't.

learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-sexual-abuse

Let's turn our attention to the girls that have been sexually abused and their needs shall we.

We don't know exactly how many children in the UK experience sexual abuse. However, research with 2,275 young people aged 11-17 about their experiences of sexual abuse suggests around 1 in 20 children in the UK have been sexually abused.

and

Girls and older children are more likely to experience sexual abuse.

Are we to believe that these girls and teenaged girls should also not have a toilet that is single sex for them? And that it is our responsibility as parents and adult women to do what we can to give them that space?

Even if it means politely asking a person who looks like a male if they are in the right toilet for their sex?

Then we have this

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1101667/WITHDRAWN_Sexual_violence_and_sexual_harassment_between_children_in_schools_and_colleges.pdf

As set out in Part one of Keeping children safe in education (KCSIE), all staff working with children are advised to maintain an attitude of ‘it could happen here’.

This seems to be a complete opposite of what you are trying to convince us of onnabug.

In the year ending March 2019, the police recorded 73,260 sexual offences where there are data to identify the victim was a child. Around one-quarter (27%) of these were rape offences.7 These totals are likely to be a significant under- representation of the true number of offences against young people in this age group.

NSPCC’s how safe are our children report 20209 found that girls are particularly vulnerable to sexual abuse, accounting for around 90% of victims of recorded rape offences against 13- to 15-year-olds in England, Wales and Scotland.

Girlguiding's Girls' 2021 Research briefing: It happens all the time found that 67% of girls and young women aged 13-18 surveyed have experienced sexual harassment at school from another student, and that 29% first experienced sexual harassment when they were just 11-13 years old.

Almost a quarter (24%) of female students and 4% of male students at mixed-sex schools have been subjected to unwanted physical touching of a sexual nature while at school

I cannot find the child on child sexual assault/rape in school numbers, but I read in the last year or so it was almost daily in UK schools during term time.

So, I guess my question is: if a polite question could prevent a young girl from being distressed in the toilet if they are also in that toilet at the time, why does that young girl deserve less consideration from you than a person who may just have innocently wandered into the wrong toilet, or had another purpose altogether.

And I do encourage you to read the adult in the Loudon county article who was a teachers aid and didn't want to cause a 'transphobic' fuss when she noticed a young teenaged girl face down on the floor and someone else in with her.

That is the extreme of what happens when women are told they are hateful for asking questions. That. Right there.

NOW remember: As set out in Part one of Keeping children safe in education (KCSIE), all staff working with children are advised to maintain an attitude of ‘it could happen here’.

Not.. oh no.... it couldn't happen here or it isn't happening here.

IT COULD HAPPEN HERE.

And I do encourage you to read the adult in the Loudon county article who was a teachers aid and didn't want to cause a 'transphobic' fuss when she noticed a young teenaged girl face down on the floor and someone else in with her.

And tell us. Very clearly.

What teenaged girl lies voluntarily face down on toilet cubicle floor???

But that teacher's aid was very concerned about being accused of something hateful.

Datun and Helleofabore you won’t be getting any answers to your egregious “whataboutery” questions

No, I know that. Obvs.

And no, men and boys over 8 are not to go into women's spaces. Be it sport or changing rooms.

And no amount of you using short haired girls in attempt to justify otherwise will work.

Just to be clear.

I hope I can rely on you to challenge any extremists in your midst that think attacks on children are in any way justified.

I don't know of anyone I've ever come across here who remotely thinks 'attacks on children are in any way justified'.

Thank you for keeping track of this impressive accusation-escalator!

Give it a couple more days and the OP will be claiming that packs of "GC women" are known to hunt down 8-12 year old girls with short hair in order to punch them in the face and brand them on the forehead with SHE/HER.

The most bizarre thing is that the OP has drawn our attention to that article. It clearly illustrates the dangers of a toxic "gender-absolutist" mindset, one that requires children and adults to conform to "gender-normative" sex-role stereotypes if they want to avoid being sent to see the surgeon to have their secondary sexual characteristics chopped off and chucked in the Clinical Waste bin.

"Gender Critical" being the exact-fucking-opposite point of view, of course.

bosky

This is the very same poster telling us that women being assaulted with something sprayed in the face or thrown in the face is most definitely assault, but those women should absolutely be relieved that they were not killed because protesting in the USA often results in violence.

To recap, with women being assaulted- proportionality is being advised.

With teenagers, it seems that only extreme polarisation can be taken.

This is, of course, an extremist tactic. It is emotional manipulation that is more about silencing than it is about supporting any point of view.

How about this/:

Reaction to women or children being assaulted or attacked in any way is taken very seriously and not diminished in any way.

And people asking reasonable questions is not emotionally manipulated into a child being attacked, harassed and abused.

Short hair was common on girls in the 70s and 80s. As was a lack of make up and pierced ears. It does seem that lately girls have to be seen to be girls to be girls. And I count my own DD in that category - apart from an overenthusiastic hairdressing game with her brother she's always had long hair as have all her friends.