Thread to discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

This thread is to replace the one that got deleted earlier today, and the TAATs that came after it.

As per MNHQ in site stuff, we're OK to have this conversatrion

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4687254-how-do-we-discuss-the-reality-of-parts-of-the-uk-absorbing-large-numbers-of-men-from-other-cultures?reply=121883255

You have zero interest in talking about male violence. Unless the males in question have brown skin. Or come from the 'wrong' countries.

We see you. And it's very clearly not male violence that interests you. It's banning immigrants.

You've said it again and again.

I'm very interested. It's a shame this thread has provided no further examination of why people behave in anti-social ways, though, other than 'that's what foreigners do'.

That's really shit DARVO. You're not even trying now, racist.

You are really quite unpleasant. I don't need to read your words slowly.

No one wants to avoid producing data apart from you.

If women are silenced, which is what you wish, then data can't be produced.

And @beastlyslumber I agree it is so clearly highlighting that some just want women to STFU.

The number of blatant and provable lies that XYZ is telling, just about what we have and have not said on this this thread, is astonishing. And all on here for everyone to see.

I really hoped this would be an interesting and nuanced discussion but one poster is really boring the tits off me and I can imagine most other people feel the same. So on that basis, can we try and ignore them?

I wanted to talk about the lack of research. I've noticed before that when looking at stats that the data simply isn't there.

That said, the ONS do record ethnicity of offenders. It makes quite interesting reading.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/659701/number-convicted-sexual-offenders-by-ethnicity-tables.xlsx

What's your agenda? You've deliberately crayoned all over the thread and called ridiculous names that are demonstrably untrue.
all you have achieved is to prove its impossible to discuss this without someone having an unhinged rant.

Local hotels near me currently have somewhere between 400 to 500 young single males in. They are harassing women in the street, mainly schoolgirls. Some of my friends are scared to leave their homes that live right by these hotels as they get stared at by the invariable groups, we wonder if they go out in groups for protection which I get but it’s unhelpful.

If these asylum seekers were families or women it would be fine.

I actually wish they were white so people could speak freely without fear of being deemed racist. I am not white and almost every time anyone gets their knickers in a twist about this in a you can’t say anything because you are being racist they are white. I blame white guilt that a growing number of white people seem to have.

Because whatever our ancestors did it sure as hell wasn’t us regardless of our skin colour or who did what to who.

Xxyzz you really are determined to stop anyone discussing this topic. Just why? What’s the problem?

Perhaps we could tackle this from another direction. We know that British men travel to Thailand for the purpose of sex tourism. They don't have signs on their foreheads though, so Thai passport control can't identify them on sight. They prob have profiles of typical sex tourists and so can guess that a man is a risk, but not know. Given we know British culture, what insights could we give the Thai authorities on what to do to dissuade these men from abusing Thai women, children and men? We might come up with ideas that could be used here.

And while you’re at it, consider the widespread sexual abuse of women by a range of charity workers such as Oxfam - who were suspended from working in Haiti by the Haiti government.

The question is why do men travel abroad to exploit women, how do we stop it.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes I don’t want to go googling this but I’m sure I remember hearing/ reading that there is some profiling of those types of trips, e.g. Men travelling alone to certain countries. Not sure if it’s done by law enforcement in the countries or here before they go, presumably some countries work together.

I’m feeling quite down that some people here might thing what I said about my experiences in Brussels is racist. I know it’s not ‘data’ but this happened to me every single time I went to city centre over a period of several years. I think we should be able to speak about it. I am in now way anti-immigration. I can remember as teenagers my friends and so used to say we wished that boys were taken aside at school and told not to do this. Maybe I am derailing as I said this is not something I have experienced in the UK. Also in my experience the harrassment is targeted at tween/ teenage girls rather than adult women.

exBxl14 This thread is like a flashback to the immediate aftermath in AIBU of the abuses in Rotherham being made public.

It was asserted as fact that anyone who believed it had happened was a racist Daily Mail reader swallowing propaganda. Women timidly testified (under namechanges) that they'd experienced the grooming gangs and were howled down.

It was a watershed moment for me, because I wanted to believe it was lies too. I had to examine my motives and why I wanted to believe only white men could be abusive so badly that I would disbelieve women reporting rape.

I’m feeling quite down that some people here might thing what I said about my experiences in Brussels is racist. I know it’s not ‘data’ but this happened to me every single time I went to city centre over a period of several years. I think we should be able to speak about it. I am in now way anti-immigration. I can remember as teenagers my friends and so used to say we wished that boys were taken aside at school and told not to do this. Maybe I am derailing as I said this is not something I have experienced in the UK. Also in my experience the harrassment is targeted at tween/ teenage girls rather than adult women.

Don't feel down. I know it happened to you because it also happened to me in Paris.

It is not racist to talk about it and it is not racist to point out that similar issues might also arise in the UK.

The poster up thread has stated that girls and young women living near hotels that are housing large number of young male migrants are feeling similar.

It's pretty shitty that someone on here has set out to call women speaking about their experiences racist.

I haven't read Prey but I'm most of the way through Infidel, AHA's first book, which is an autobiography of her life up until (I think) when she moves to the US.

She started speaking out against Islam when she was a refugee in the Netherlands, initially because of the way Muslim migrant women were being treated by their male family members and by the wider community of migrant Muslim men.

I've got Prey on my xmas list and it would be great to have a thread about it.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes perhaps there are parallels between the paedos/western men who visit Thailand/Cambodia/et al - and the undesirables arriving.

we all know why they’re going to Thailand and what sort of men they are.

what sort of men leave their mums/sisters/nieces/wives? The type who doesn’t even respect the women in his OWN family.

Can’t remember who said there’s one poster on this thread boring the tits off us all… but alternatively it could be Ms Begum having her sliding doors moment rather than her nice grad job. 😉

I know it happened to you because it happened to me too. It's not racist to notice that every time a man hisses or spits when you walk by, he's North African. It's not racist for me to notice that my experiences of being publicly groped and assaulted plummeted when I moved to the U.K. even though I was living in a very very dodgy part of south london and there was a lot of crime.

It's misogynist to not allow women to talk about our experiences.

This actually makes me think of a Facebook group I follow called the Black Femicide Prevention Coalition. The group does an amazing job in collating the death of every single black woman killed in the US. Black women are overwhelmingly killed by black men (unsurprisingly) in the same way that white women are overwhelmingly killed by white men. Five black women are killed each day in the US and it simply isn't talked about. The women who set up the group feel they aren't able to talk about this fact, that black male violence against women is taboo. The narrative is always about black men being killed.

Women - whatever the colour of our skin - must be able to talk about the reality of our lived experiences. We must not be silenced if our assailants are from an oppressed minority.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/25/homicide-violence-against-black-women-us

Hooverphobe there are various levels of intervention possible, from pre-emptive refusal of visas to people who fit the profile, to attempts to educate tourists.

The lowest-key intervention I can think of is a leaflet upon entering the country, addressing and debunking all the usual justifications sex-buyers tell themselves, and explaining what criminal offences (if any) sex buyers can be convicted of in Thailand.

We could do the same here regarding the issues in this thread.

Never have I seen so much whataboutery on a single thread.

It's been a recurring point about the behaviour of refugee men en masse in hotels where they have nothing to do all day except go out for fresh air.

Surely we could be delivering a highly focused form of PSHE course to them? Something that's a cross between PSHE classes at school, modern Health and Safety at Work training on one's legal responsibilities and those terrifying 80s Public Service Information videos on different ways to die horribly on the farm..

Tbf one of those farm videos should do it. I still have nightmares about slurry pits.

I was thinking about the imbalance of men to women. China has had problems for decades due to the murder of female babies. Because there are more young men vying for women, they “take” what they want (gang rape) - and it’s not unknown for GIRLS to be kidnapped for a prodigal son.

As someone else said - women, families - bring it on - but swathes of men with very different expectations? Threaten them with a slurry pit.

It’s odd because I’ve lived in Paris and also in the south. While I would say sexual harassment in France was more marked than in the U.K., by no means were the majority offenders N.African, indeed by far the majority were white men of varying ages and dispositions, consistent with their proportion of the population.

What I did notice was the ingrained racism against N.Africans and French Africans dating back to France’s colonies, so well described in Camus.

I like the idea of leaflets, posters etc. That's a low-key intervention that could make a difference.

With the asylum seekers in hotels in the UK, I agree some form of targeted educational programme would be good. I also think that there needs to be some kind of way of connecting people to the communities and places they're living in, maybe creating some kind of links that mean they are beginning to integrate. I also think it shouldn't be allowed for males to gather in groups anywhere - I don't know how you would begin to police that, though.

I read Infidel and think her story is incredible. She's a very brave woman who has to deal with constant threats to her life. Something I've not seen much chat about on FWR or more broadly is the experiences of women who leave Islam, or try to leave Islam.

I've downloaded Prey onto my kindle so would love to have a thread about that whenever anyone's ready!

Don't feel down @ExBxl14 . It's just one poster who is flinging shit around and trying to shut down discussion.