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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Change of CEO at mermaids…

889 replies

backaftera2yearbreak · 25/11/2022 17:52

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/susie-green-leaves-mermaids/

OP posts:
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29
Bosky · 01/12/2022 01:53

BrownTableMat · 30/11/2022 16:27

I’d more read it as a reverse-ferret: we need to change the culture of pushing transition on children, into something more defensible and more in line with where NHS thinking is going

Reminds me of Mermaids "coincidentally" blogging "Do you still use the phrase: 'Born in the wrong body'?" the day after the Dept of Education issued Guidance saying, "teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing,"

My favourite reply was, "Do you still used the phrase "reverse ferret"?" 🐾😂

Guidance
Plan your relationships, sex and health curriculum
Information to help school leaders plan, develop and implement the new statutory curriculum.
From:
Department for Education
Published
24 September 2020
www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum
Archive: archive.ph/wzpBU

Do you use the phrase: ‘Born in the wrong body’?
Mermaids News
25th September 2020
mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/do-you-still-use-the-phrase-born-in-the-wrong-body/
Archive: archive.ph/0Elgr

Change of CEO at mermaids…
Change of CEO at mermaids…
Change of CEO at mermaids…
Change of CEO at mermaids…
BoreOfWhabylon · 01/12/2022 04:39

Astonishing.

Change of CEO at mermaids…
VaddaABeetch · 01/12/2022 05:34

When his nuts are gone Will he then become SG’s Bitch?

VaddaABeetch · 01/12/2022 05:39

Better a live bitch than a dead dog?

WarriorN · 01/12/2022 06:53

It rather fucks me off to see the money people who are actively encouraging beliefs that cause harm to children earn.

When thousands of teachers and social workers are on a fraction of that, working their arses off to support children with a huge range of challenges.

And then aforementioned belief gets thrown in and you've a disaster on your hands.

guinnessguzzler · 01/12/2022 07:26

WallaceinAnderland · 30/11/2022 23:30

But why would you take another charity and, indeed, the Charity Commision itself, to court, thus putting your own under scrutiny, if you knew you had not been compliant?

Was it just pure arrogance? Or vexatious litigation perhaps?

Even so, such a risk to take and the board must have agreed to it.

Yes, this was clearly a huge mistake. Why they didn't realise this is hard to say, when it was pretty obvious how damaging it could be. I think it must be arrogance, mixed with being surrounded by people who just cheer along instead of actually interrogating decisions properly. That's what happens when you buy in to a culture of no debate. People often refer to the Emperor's New Clothes in this context and I think this is it playing out at an organisational level. No one was able to speak up or even ask questions until it was far too late.

In terms of recruitment to the CEO position, I can't see that anyone with any sense would touch it.

Abhannmor · 01/12/2022 08:45

BoreOfWhabylon · 01/12/2022 04:39

Astonishing.

Wow....

Yeah , strong Munchausen bang off this one.

dandelionthistle · 01/12/2022 08:52

guinnessguzzler · 01/12/2022 07:26

Yes, this was clearly a huge mistake. Why they didn't realise this is hard to say, when it was pretty obvious how damaging it could be. I think it must be arrogance, mixed with being surrounded by people who just cheer along instead of actually interrogating decisions properly. That's what happens when you buy in to a culture of no debate. People often refer to the Emperor's New Clothes in this context and I think this is it playing out at an organisational level. No one was able to speak up or even ask questions until it was far too late.

In terms of recruitment to the CEO position, I can't see that anyone with any sense would touch it.

I'd love to hear from people with more recent experience of the charity sector than me (I left ten years ago), but I bet trustees are still often asleep at the wheel. A lot of people spoke as if what happened at Kids Company was either a warning to the sector which would be heeded, but I bet lots never did and that's now some years back, memories are short, people can do the "we're not like that because..." dance.

I don't know who the Mermaids board are/were, but I can well believe that emotional devotion to the cause, hubris, and/or absolute ignorance of the extent to which they're responsible for SG's clusterfuck were at play.

dandelionthistle · 01/12/2022 08:55

Re: the job, I think it's doable. I know people (in the charity sector and also in my more recent career in central government) who absolutely thrive on crisis management, cleaning up, putting noses out of joint and delivering an outcome which is tolerable to all parties. I don't think it has to be a poisoned chalice and I completely agree, that (LinkedIn?) message sounds like that's the reverse-ferret fixer they're looking for. 🤞

RoyalCorgi · 01/12/2022 08:59

A mixture of arrogance and stupidity and a big dollop of Susie Greens God complex

Absolutely, BoiledBeetle. We have to remember that stupid people don't usually realise they're stupid. What came very clearly out of the Forstater tribunal, the Allison Bailey tribunal and the Mermaids/LGBA court case was that these people are so used to existing in a bubble they have no idea how ridiculous their beliefs appear to the outside world.

IcakethereforeIam · 01/12/2022 09:06

Th...that dog post!

Surely, that's a cruel and unfunny parody account.

No-one can be that tone deaf. Ffs, I......bloody hell.....her own child. Is it supposed to be a joke?

Birdsweepsin · 01/12/2022 09:07

Ah, look at Belinda Bell's plea for more trustees on LinkedIn 7 months ago.

"We want the board to be as diverse as possible - in all ways" acquires quite the ironic tinge given the accession of a paedophile-adjacent trustee...

Change of CEO at mermaids…
Sophoclesthefox · 01/12/2022 09:14

Did they really want the board to be diverse “in all ways”, though.

Did they really? Have they thought through what they meant? It’s just jibber jabber.

Actual diverse trustees would include gender critical people, for a start, to represent those sadly outmoded concepts of watchful waiting and age appropriate, compassionate, holistic care based on all of the child’s issues.

As if!

But it would have saved them from the world of trouble they’re in now, exactly as trustees ought to do.

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2022 09:36

WallaceinAnderland · 30/11/2022 23:30

But why would you take another charity and, indeed, the Charity Commision itself, to court, thus putting your own under scrutiny, if you knew you had not been compliant?

Was it just pure arrogance? Or vexatious litigation perhaps?

Even so, such a risk to take and the board must have agreed to it.

I am agreeing with the God complex thing.

One of the criticisms with comparisons with a cult is the point that there was no charismatic leader.

I think we are now seeing that this is entirely questionable and actually it's starting to emerge just how influential Green was an individual and how others hitched onto the beat of her drum for their own reasons.

I think if we have a public inquiry into this, and we should, this is one of the things that will start to become obvious. How untouchable Green became and how any criticism of her or her ideas was responded to in a way reminiscent of a cult.

Its incredible that she got so far without question.

Here is extracts from the very first 'signs of a cult' we page thats come up on google:

1. The leader is the ultimate authority
If you’re not allowed to criticize your leader, even if the criticism is true, you’re probably in a cult.

Cults begin with a charismatic leader who claims some supreme knowledge. They may call themselves a prophet, messiah, messenger, or an enlightened teacher. They can also be CEOs, military officials, politicians, and self-help gurus.

2. The group suppresses skepticism
If you’re only allowed to study your organization through approved sources, you’re probably in a cult.

Cults view critical thinking as an infectious disease and every effort is made to suppress it. Doubting members are encouraged to isolate themselves from outside influences and focus solely on the doctrine of the cult.

Criticism is forbidden. People who contradict the group are viewed as persecutors and are often given labels like “anti,” “apostate,” or “suppressive person.” Members are discouraged from consuming any material that is critical of the group.

3. The group delegitimizes former members
If you can’t think of a legitimate reason for leaving your group, you’re probably in a cult.

4. The group is paranoid about the outside world
If your group insists the end of the world is near, you’re probably in a cult.

Cults position themselves as the sole refuge from an evil outside world that is intent on their destruction. Cults thrive on conspiracy theories, catastrophic thinking, and persecution complexes.

5. The group relies on shame cycles
If you need your group in order to feel worthy, loved, or sufficient, you’re probably in a cult.

Cult leaders trap members in shame cycles by imposing abnormally strict codes of conduct (usually prescriptions about diet, appearance, sex, relationships, media), guilting members for their shortcomings, and then positioning themselves as the unique remedy to the feelings of guilt which they themselves created.

6. The leader is above the law
If you’re held to a different moral standard, specifically in regard to sex, you’re probably in a cult.

A prevalent idea among cult leaders is that they are above the law, be it human or divine. This idea allows them to exploit their followers economically and sexually without repercussions.

When confronted, they do not confess, but create justifications for their impropriety. Sexual grooming of members is common. Loyal cult members will perform any amount of “mental gymnastics” to justify or ignore the leader’s behavior.

7. The group uses “thought reform” methods
If your serious questions are answered with cliches, you’re probably in a cult.

Indoctrination or “brainwashing” is the process through which a cult slowly breaks down a person’s sense of identity and ability to think rationally. Behaviors like excessive fasting, prayer, hypnosis, scripture reading, chanting, meditation, or drug usage can all be used to increase a person’s vulnerability to the leader’s suggestions.

The hallmark of indoctrination is the use of thought-terminating cliches. Platitudes like “follow the leader” or “doubt your doubts” are regurgitated over and over so that members don’t have to critically analyze complex issues.

8. The group is elitist
If your group is the solution for all the world’s problems, you’re probably in a cult.

Cults see themselves as the enlightened, chosen, and elect organization tasked with radically transforming individual lives and the entire world.

This elitism creates greater sense of group unity and responsibility centered on a united purpose. However, this sense of responsibility is often manipulated by cult leaders who coerce members into risky financial behavior, sexual favors, free manual labor, or heightened recruitment efforts in order to “further the cause.”

9. There is no financial transparency
If you’re not allowed to know what the group does with their money, you’re probably in a cult.

A group that refuses to disclose its finances is a huge red flag. Ethical organizations have nothing to hide. Cult leaders tend to live opulently while their followers are required to make financial sacrifices. Members are often encouraged to pay their offerings even if it means putting their families at risk.

10. The group performs secret rites
If there are secret teachings or ceremonies you didn’t discover until after you joined, you’re probably in a cult.

Cults use secret rituals as rites of passage that solidify a member’s loyalty to the group. Initiation into these rites usually only comes after a member has undergone certain tests or made adequate financial contributions.

Often, cult initiations are confusing, bizarre, or even offensive. This mental dissonance between their sense of confusion and their loyalty to the “inner circle” convinces the initiate to double their efforts in order to properly appreciate the proceedings. This only further entrenches them in a shame cycle, making them even more susceptible to manipulation.

Now when these type of comparisons were first suggested about Mermaids a few years back, I couldn't find examples that would fit 3 or 4 of these classic 10 signs of a cult.

Fast forward to 2022 and the scandals and departure of Green and I think there's a full house in there which is fairly easily evidenced.

Theres been a gradual escalation to this point and tbh I think its pretty much the only thing that rationally explains the madness that is the LGB Alliance litigation.

I do think the bubble has burst somewhat on these now, though I do think it will be extremely interesting to see where Green pops up next.

As I've always said the antidote to Mermaids like cults has always been the encouragement of critical thought and getting people to ask their own questions rather than telling them what to think. Once the bubbles starts to burst in power structures that enabled a cult there is no real way back from it. You get splinter groups and a small continuation from those unable to deprogramme but the power tends to disperse.

Now its highly possible that this post will be deleted. However I think that will only serve to illustrate the point and the untouchable status of Mermaids and how it avoided the criticism it needed to prevent the harms it has created. Accountability MUST be possible in situations like this.

Whats incredibly frightening is how much longer this would have dragged on with the existence of MN. I think there still would have been resistance but it would have manifested through different avenues which may have been less pleasant.

We do now need to start to frame what has happened in the correct way as it's important to identify what has gone wrong and why so many safeguarding fails happened before Green was forced to leave. There has been a catastrophic series of events that have come together to create this scenario. ITV's cannonisation of Green looks particularly dreadful at this stage too.

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2022 09:38

Birdsweepsin · 01/12/2022 09:07

Ah, look at Belinda Bell's plea for more trustees on LinkedIn 7 months ago.

"We want the board to be as diverse as possible - in all ways" acquires quite the ironic tinge given the accession of a paedophile-adjacent trustee...

Honestly Bell was enabler in chief. She needs to step down too. She isnt untarnished by this.

Needmoresleep · 01/12/2022 09:44

Just thinking, but could Stonewall have had some staff who were acting outside their remit, which led, for example to Garden Court being encouraged to rein in Allison. That court case may have led to senior management focus on other initiatives linked to the LGBA, including working with the Good Law Project, Mermaids and others on the current case. Partners having been attracted in part to the idea of working with and supporting the big player in the field, and therefore not having engaged in too much critical thinking. Stonewall wisely withdraws, leaving Mermaids in the firing line.

I assume there are indications (requests for more detail/evidence) that the Charities Commission has found issues with processes, so Mermaids will want their safeguarding and other procedures sorted out quickly by someone experienced. Then when the shit (CC findings, LGBA verdict) finally settles they can say that a lot is already in hand, and decide where to go from there with the Cass related stuff. I personally think the brand is toxic, income will drop and it will be easier to graft some of their viable functions onto another organisation.

(Easy check - who still has those mermaids thingy's ion their Twitter profiles. They used to be ubiquitous. Those dinosaurs seem to have eaten them.)

An alternative theory is that Belinda Bell finally read the interim Cass report and thought....wtf.

Birdsweepsin · 01/12/2022 09:46

Bell stating under oath that Mermaids don't give out medical advice when Cass says Gids were significantly influenced by Mermaids suggests either:

  • she lied on the stand
  • she wasn't aware of what mm were doing
  • Green lied to her (or didn't tell the trustees the whole truth)
RedToothBrush · 01/12/2022 09:51

Birdsweepsin · 01/12/2022 09:46

Bell stating under oath that Mermaids don't give out medical advice when Cass says Gids were significantly influenced by Mermaids suggests either:

  • she lied on the stand
  • she wasn't aware of what mm were doing
  • Green lied to her (or didn't tell the trustees the whole truth)

Indeed.

None of which is compatible with her continuing to be a fit and proper person to be trustee.

I hope she gets stung by whatever happens next as she's very much responsible for enabling what's happened.

ControversialOpening · 01/12/2022 09:54

I bet that dog was playing with the wrong toys. It was given the choice of a blue ball and a pink stick, and chose the stick.

Now that poor old SG is no longer a mermaid she's clearly wandering around desperately seeking to trans anything she can find. If I lived near to her I wouldn't be letting my kids out unsupervised. Or my cat.

IcakethereforeIam · 01/12/2022 10:34

I hope @RedToothBrush you've got your last long post save or, even better and considering the context, MN will let it stay.

I wonder if there were any emails, texts or other communications between MM, Stonewall and/or GCC about Alison? Would there be anyway of finding out, shy of a whistle-blower?

Has SG written her memoirs yet?

Kucinghitam · 01/12/2022 10:51

@RedToothBrush that was a fascinating analysis and I think you're absolutely spot on! I do fear the post will get reported by the monitors. Is it possible to pre-emptively report a post in support??

TheBiologyStupid · 01/12/2022 11:06

That list was excellent, RedToothBrush - MM ticks so many of the boxes. No. 7, "The group uses “thought reform” methods - If your serious questions are answered with cliches, you’re probably in a cult" pretty much applies to all gender identity ideology organisations.

dolorsit · 01/12/2022 11:13

I've copied and pasted that post.

A very interesting analysis.

TheBiologyStupid · 01/12/2022 11:15

I've archived this page of this thread just in case: archive.ph/La1gC

Boiledbeetle · 01/12/2022 11:26

Having read@RedToothBrush post I'm going to change my previous comment

Previous: A mixture of arrogance and stupidity and a big dollop of Susie Greens God complex
New: Susies Greens' massive God complex and arrogance and the stupidity of the trustees.

That list though Red, I'm reading it going, yep, yep yep. It's frightening to see the obvious similarities, and once you do you can't unsee what mermaids is.

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