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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

R4 Brain of Britain "All Women Final"

151 replies

SereneSemolina · 21/11/2022 18:16

Did anyone else hear the loud applause of the audience at the declaration this was a first for the competition - an 'all women" line up for the final?

I would be more than happy to applaud an all women final, but clapping a finalist line of 3 women and a TW just makes me ask, why?!

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ShellsOnTheBeach · 24/11/2022 03:03

Could someone please list the email for complaining to the BBC about this?

And keep bumping this thread...

Thanks !

GoodWeatherforDucks · 24/11/2022 03:50

MsMcWibble · 22/11/2022 10:37

Yeah. I heard 'all female final'. Outrageous shark jump. Shame on Women's Hour. When the history of this insanity is written, they will be in the chapter titled 'Traitors'.

Too right! It’s up there with the shameful fact that Emma Barnett has so far interviewed ‘Grace’ Lavery on Woman’s Hour, but not Helen Joyce.

Although maybe that was under the guise of “let them speak”, as simply listening to the utter rubbish ‘Grace’ spouted firmed my stance on men who choose the gender identity of ‘woman’.

Helleofabore · 24/11/2022 03:57

MrsOvertonsWindow · 23/11/2022 21:48

That's a significant change - it's the BBC acknowledging facts - that TWANW and therefore the phrase "all woman" should not have been used.
Can't wait to see more factual reporting from them.

It is a significant change. And the TRA extremists are unhappy from looking at the comments on that tweet.

Ramblingnamechanger · 24/11/2022 06:14

If we all knew, why didn’t they? There must have been a lot of complaints to get this acknowledgement, of course they knew.

NotTerfNorCis · 24/11/2022 06:35

So many 'women's firsts' that aren't really women's firsts. Then the real thing gets overlooked.

Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 07:01

Helleofabore · 24/11/2022 03:57

It is a significant change. And the TRA extremists are unhappy from looking at the comments on that tweet.

Yes, the Twitter TRAs aren’t happy, are they? The usual suspects weighing in to complain.

Whippet · 24/11/2022 07:23

I’ve been listening to Fi & Jane (Garvey) on Times Radio since they left the BBC and although I haven’t heard them talk about this issue specifically, it’s very clear from their comments how much they were restricted by BBC editorial control and prevented from expressing any opinions.

Their new podcast ‘Off Air’ is a great listen!

Datun · 24/11/2022 07:46

SereneSemolina · 22/11/2022 15:02

I'm still a bit at a loss really.

What is the point? Why are the BBC pushing this? How does this increase confidence in the BBC and its ability to report and inform?

It's such a blatant lie to call it an all woman final, and to then move that into a discussion around representation of women in quizzes and quizzing - all the while holding up the inclusion of a TW as the answer?

I'm confused tbh.

Trans people are over represented at the BBC. Last time the figures were released, it was something like 400.

SereneSemolina · 24/11/2022 08:02

Helleofabore · 24/11/2022 03:57

It is a significant change. And the TRA extremists are unhappy from looking at the comments on that tweet.

What's interesting (and a bit baffling) is that the majority of those TRA complaints are solely and based on nothing else at all, because the BBC has acknowledged that there is a difference between women and TW. This alone is transphobia apparently, and not agreeing that women are a group that also contains men is transphobia.

It's good to set out the fundamental incompatibility that means that reasonable discussion is just impossible. If you have a conversation you have to agree to terms of reference and definitions that are only agreed upon by one 'side' then how can you move forward.

And everyone accusing others of transphobia on this basis is missing the v important point that literally no one cares that a TW was taking part, no one mentioned their "existence" in other shows and rounds in this way, because no one was being wholesale lied to about this supposedly landmark event being all women.

True TRA would and should surely feel reassured and celebrate this, that transpeople participating in whatever they want to, using the names and pronouns they choose, dressed as they like, are completely unremarked upon and accepted. I genuinely think and feel this is good. Because I am not transphobic (by my definition).

(I am also v bothered by the disgusting racism and snobbery wheeled out by those complaining on Twitter - comparing black women or 'poor' women to trans women ie all equivalent sub sets of women, is, to me, horrible and offensively inaccurate.)

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DrBlackbird · 24/11/2022 08:28

SereneSemolina · 23/11/2022 17:18

I've also complained. Not sure why they need so much personal information for a complaint though.

Given the level of vitriol aimed at women who express concerns about the meaning of the word woman, the requirements to include an address etc to register a BBC complaint is deeply concerning. And it’s an effective barrier as I no longer feel safe to register my concerns.

SereneSemolina · 24/11/2022 08:46

DrBlackbird · 24/11/2022 08:28

Given the level of vitriol aimed at women who express concerns about the meaning of the word woman, the requirements to include an address etc to register a BBC complaint is deeply concerning. And it’s an effective barrier as I no longer feel safe to register my concerns.

You can WhatsApp or text Feedback and not give those details

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DrBlackbird · 24/11/2022 08:57

But @SereneSemolina they’d still have your phone number, no?

littlegreenwoman · 24/11/2022 09:10

I just saw this today. The number of people under that tweet dramatically repeating the mantra and raging how it’s all so transphobic to dare to identify a trans woman as a transwoman is so frustrating to see. It really does feel like the worst kind of gaslighting in those zombie responses.

KittensNotMittens · 24/11/2022 09:13

So why did they dress in the baby pink and blue colours?

Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 09:27

KittensNotMittens · 24/11/2022 09:13

So why did they dress in the baby pink and blue colours?

Emma Laslett describes themself online as a “full-time queer trans lady”. Assume that’s as opposed to Izzard that is a part-time queer trans lady?

Clymene · 24/11/2022 09:34

I don't think it's the 'all women' bit they're apologising for, it's the fact that Emma said it was 'all female'. I genuinely don't think she knew that one of the finalists was male.

ShellsOnTheBeach · 24/11/2022 09:52

What's the email or WhatsApp for complaining to the BBC about this please

AuntMunca · 24/11/2022 09:58

DrBlackbird · 24/11/2022 08:28

Given the level of vitriol aimed at women who express concerns about the meaning of the word woman, the requirements to include an address etc to register a BBC complaint is deeply concerning. And it’s an effective barrier as I no longer feel safe to register my concerns.

I've complained to the BBC on multiple occasions over the last four years or so. I was reluctant to give personal details to start with, so appreciate these concerns, but am keen to make the BBC respond to my complaints and to escalate them beyond the production team where necessary so have been prepared to give them. So far it hasn't caused me any problems (it would be a scandal noteworthy of considerable press attention if it did).

Somanysocks · 24/11/2022 10:58

Considering that transphobia has such a wide range of definitions I'm inclined to accept that being transphobic is wholly positive and not the negative thing that we are led to believe.

LK1972 · 24/11/2022 11:18

littlegreenwoman · 24/11/2022 09:10

I just saw this today. The number of people under that tweet dramatically repeating the mantra and raging how it’s all so transphobic to dare to identify a trans woman as a transwoman is so frustrating to see. It really does feel like the worst kind of gaslighting in those zombie responses.

True, but I'm encouraged by the much bigger amount of people pushing back on this nonsense, now that Twitter doesn't sanction people for gender critical/common sense comments. And it shows to all that TRAs don't have anything but mantras and accusations of transphobia, there is 'no debate' because TRAs don't have any arguments.

MagpiePi · 24/11/2022 11:41

Somanysocks · 24/11/2022 10:58

Considering that transphobia has such a wide range of definitions I'm inclined to accept that being transphobic is wholly positive and not the negative thing that we are led to believe.

Wouldn't that be good?!

thislittlebird · 24/11/2022 11:46

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

SereneSemolina · 24/11/2022 11:48

DrBlackbird · 24/11/2022 08:57

But @SereneSemolina they’d still have your phone number, no?

They would buy as it's v easy to block them, I'm not sure that bothers me in the way that having my address does

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Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 11:50

I see Benjamin Cohen has waded in by saying that revealing one of the contestants is trans is a breach of privacy and the BBC should be investigated.

In other news …

R4 Brain of Britain "All Women Final"
SereneSemolina · 24/11/2022 12:31

Dreikanter · 24/11/2022 11:50

I see Benjamin Cohen has waded in by saying that revealing one of the contestants is trans is a breach of privacy and the BBC should be investigated.

In other news …

Oh wow @Dreikanter !

That article is the first one that came up when I googled the contestant's name too!

The point that all the ragers at missing is that literally no one cared about this finalist being a TW. It would not have been mentioned EXCEPT that we were required to hail this final as "all women" and "all female" which is a lie. My interest in this person's gender identity began and ends at that juncture.

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