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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Ministry of Justice officials warned that talk about 'protecting women' could be transphobic

74 replies

ResisterRex · 20/11/2022 10:35

Seems there's a lot of discussion going on about this article:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/19/ministry-justice-officials-warned-talk-protecting-women-could/

KPSS have the document distributed by the HMPPS staff network:

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1594111361692225537?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

Anya Palmer says the employer is liable in this case re this network and anyone who works there, who feels harassed by that email would bring the claim against MoJ:

twitter.com/anyabike/status/1594256187411017729?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

Bev Jackson comment on the matter of TQ+ networks:

twitter.com/bevjacksonauth/status/1594265542399037449?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

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ResisterRex · 20/11/2022 10:46

Legal Feminist suggest a damage limitation route for MoJ:

twitter.com/legalfeminist/status/1594258296298524672?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

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Helleofabore · 20/11/2022 10:47

I was just reading this.

chilling!!!

Rightsraptor · 20/11/2022 10:47

Thank you for sharing this, OP. I'm horrified.

I started to read the Telegraph article but my blood boiled so I stopped. I find it so hard to believe this stuff is circulating but I know it is. My admiration goes out to whoever leaked it. They will have done so at great risk.

I'll resume reading when I've calmed down a bit.

ResisterRex · 20/11/2022 10:48

I wasn't sure when I started reading the article but the actual document that KPSS has shows a line hasn't just been crossed, they've set fire to it. It's utterly unacceptable.

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GrabbyGabby · 20/11/2022 10:52

And this is why staff networks can turn toxic. They attract the ultra social justice warriors and repel everyone else. (our womens network is now the gender equality network, the three people who last stood for chair centered males... ).

Employers supported them to prove their diversity credentials, but now can't control them, don't know what to do with them and are fucking terrified of them.

LondonWolf · 20/11/2022 10:56

Well this was always the end goal, this is what the feminists of a decade ago, sometimes right here on MN, and being viciously attacked for it, again sometimes right here on MN, were warning us about. Blur and make unrecognisable what "woman" actually means, and let men into that social group, then you can gradually removing women's essential sex based protections.

ResisterRex · 20/11/2022 10:58

Well, well, well:

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1594274351515590657?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

"PiPP is more than just an @ hmpps staff network. They also advise on @ MoJGovUK policy including those policies that permit the allocation of some male prisoners to the female estate."

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Boomboom22 · 20/11/2022 11:06

That definitions document is unreal. Biased beyond belief. Has anyone got the attention of the home secretary on this? Surely heads have to roll now, this is blatant nonsense and essentially hate to anyone who doesn't support the medicalisation of confused children.

Boiledbeetle · 20/11/2022 11:14

I'm posting one of the comments that was under the article as it says what we are all thinking

Comment:

“ A Prison Service spokesman said: “This guidebook was published by a staff network..”

A few observations:

  1. Demonising women (adult human females) is misogyny; demonising people who are same sex attracted is homophobic; demonising gender critical people is actually discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. All of it is a breach of their human rights, specifically Articles 9 and 10.
  1. This discriminatory, misogynistic, homophobic material was sent out via an official MoJ email account.
  1. And as taxpayers, we PAY for this.
Clymene · 20/11/2022 11:28

I'm horrified by this. How has the MoJ - which is supposed to be about fairness and equality under the law got to a position where a staff network felt able to publish and distribute some truly horrific misogynist material?

EndlessTea · 20/11/2022 11:33

LondonWolf · 20/11/2022 10:56

Well this was always the end goal, this is what the feminists of a decade ago, sometimes right here on MN, and being viciously attacked for it, again sometimes right here on MN, were warning us about. Blur and make unrecognisable what "woman" actually means, and let men into that social group, then you can gradually removing women's essential sex based protections.

Well, yes.
There has definitely been a concerted effort throughout the twenty tens, to erase women as a political class, (although the only truly consistent way to meaningfully categorise people, is by sex) and undo all feminist gains.

Women Studies became Gender Studies
Feminist Societies became Anti-Sexism Societies
Feminism became Equality…

Then men could legitimately become equal participants in formerly feminist discourse and all things previously for women could be headed by men.

Then men could call themselves women and the places where women are offered protection from male violation and dominance - single sex services and spaces, were disappeared in a stroke.

Further more, they could ‘tick the gender diversity box’, take further advantage of measures put in place to help women, in order to hurt women.

I think the number of women and girls identifying out of being women and offering themselves up for terrible body morphication and sexual nullification, has been an unintended, but not unwelcome consequence for those who despised feminists and feminist gains, and women ourselves, enough to get organised and play the long game.

So the total erasure of ‘women as a sex’ became a plausible goal - make ‘women’ a dirty word unless it refers to men- attack everything for women from menstrual products to the breast-screening to midwifery, until the providers apologetically erase all association with women.

EndlessTea · 20/11/2022 13:34

Clymene · 20/11/2022 11:28

I'm horrified by this. How has the MoJ - which is supposed to be about fairness and equality under the law got to a position where a staff network felt able to publish and distribute some truly horrific misogynist material?

Yes, heads really need to roll. You can’t have twisted ideological zealots making shit up, with no oversight, being given power and authority to mail out directives to entire government departments. WTAF?

Datun · 20/11/2022 13:38

Clymene · 20/11/2022 11:28

I'm horrified by this. How has the MoJ - which is supposed to be about fairness and equality under the law got to a position where a staff network felt able to publish and distribute some truly horrific misogynist material?

Exactly. And according to legal Twitter, whether they have approved it or not, they are liable for the content.

And the content is homophobic, misogynistic, and violates the equality act.

Christ, I've been waiting for bloody years for an adult to walk in the room. Where the hell are they??

lovelyweathertoday · 20/11/2022 14:04

Clymene · 20/11/2022 11:28

I'm horrified by this. How has the MoJ - which is supposed to be about fairness and equality under the law got to a position where a staff network felt able to publish and distribute some truly horrific misogynist material?

They are locking up rapists with women.

This is just enforcing compliance.

Abitofalark · 20/11/2022 14:09

Thanks for posting an accessible link to the article. I may have missed it but what is KPSS?

hallouminatus · 20/11/2022 14:30

KPSS = keep prisons single sex
kpssinfo.org/

Abitofalark · 20/11/2022 15:09

Thank you, hallouminatus.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/11/2022 15:16

lovelyweathertoday · 20/11/2022 14:04

They are locking up rapists with women.

This is just enforcing compliance.

It seems that the law and associated areas is a safe home for certain adults with some pretty repellant ideas in terms of child safeguarding and removing protections around VAWG. Until these people are forced to focus on work rather than using the MoJ, the CPS, the Home Office etc as their personal channel for their anti social ideas, this isn't going to change. Sad

nilsmousehammer · 20/11/2022 15:59

Well haven't they massively boobed there?

That should work very nicely to get people like Braverman and Rishi fired up and investigating. No better way to end this mess than embarrassing government like this.

AlisonDonut · 20/11/2022 16:01

Clymene · 20/11/2022 11:28

I'm horrified by this. How has the MoJ - which is supposed to be about fairness and equality under the law got to a position where a staff network felt able to publish and distribute some truly horrific misogynist material?

Well they lock women up with racists so if you are expecting any respect from them for any women you'll be waiting a fair old while.

FromAMNtter · 20/11/2022 20:11

I have tweeted Dominic Raab - Justice Sec and Damian Hinds - Prisons Minister asking how this fits with the Public Sector Equality Duty.
[namechanged regular as my tweet can be identified from this post]

ToiletTroubles · 20/11/2022 21:17

I also found this sentence in the Telegraph article very chilling:

"warns staff to look out for social media accounts that hold this view".

Wtf does that mean? I'd like to see that part of the original email but it looks pretty bad - what are they proposing staff do when they see a social media account with prescribed views? Disbelieve them, out them as GC or having wrongthink?

And who's social media accounts are they talking about - staff members, staff networks? Public, private?

What a cluster fuck.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/11/2022 21:25

FromAMNtter · 20/11/2022 20:11

I have tweeted Dominic Raab - Justice Sec and Damian Hinds - Prisons Minister asking how this fits with the Public Sector Equality Duty.
[namechanged regular as my tweet can be identified from this post]

Damian Hinds as Education Minister was completely indifferent to the safeguarding of children in schools when he was Education Minister. I've seen a letter where he wrote very excitedly about how inclusive mixed sex toilets in schools were, so doubt he'll be interested in stopping male born sex offenders getting access to vulnerable women - he'll just think it's inclusive 😩

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 20/11/2022 21:28

Clearly written by a bunch of sex offenders designed to silence women so they can carry on offending.

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