Telegraph: Ministry of Justice officials warned that talk about 'protecting women' could be transphobic

[ResisterRex]

Seems there's a lot of discussion going on about this article:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/19/ministry-justice-officials-warned-talk-protecting-women-could/

KPSS have the document distributed by the HMPPS staff network:

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1594111361692225537?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

Anya Palmer says the employer is liable in this case re this network and anyone who works there, who feels harassed by that email would bring the claim against MoJ:

twitter.com/anyabike/status/1594256187411017729?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

Bev Jackson comment on the matter of TQ+ networks:

twitter.com/bevjacksonauth/status/1594265542399037449?s=46&t=T982lWXjOLKvfzxMzKbtmg

It seems obvious that silencing is the point. We refused to use the words they insisted on and chose our own terms, so that obviously must be punished.

What the hell is this , paid 37 grand for what. To put out shite like this

The glossary was shared from the official justice.gov.uk email address of the “HMPPS pride in prisons and probation LGBTI+ staff support network”, which has 5,764 members, under the watch of a diversity lead who is paid £37,166.

The guy should be sacked for putting out toxic shit like that.

Kate Coleman (Keep Prisons Single Sex) tweeted the document - 6 pages.

1 - 5

Page 6

37 grand isn't nearly enough to encourage me to think about this bollocks all day every day

Did you know we are all speaking in code?

I'm shocked to discover that referring to real/actual women means that I am diminishing and trying to erase transwomen.

I'm off to have a word with myself as I thought that I was pointing out that transwomen aren't actually women but men!

Why do they think that Just because I don't believe being a woman is just a feeling that that means I want to diminish or erase transwomen. As far as I'm concerned anyone can do whatever they like to be as happy as they can be. BUT I don't want my rights as a real actual woman trampled on in order to make that happen.

Tweeting ministers does absolutely nothing. I doubt they even count the tweets.

You need to either write to your own MP making your points and asking for them to by raise with the Justice Minister (sometimes MPs needs asking more than once to do this - mine does) and you should then eventually receive a copy of the response by the MOJ. Meaning the MOJ have to actually formulate a response which will stir their lazy bones into looking at the situation. Tweets they can ignore.

The other option is to right to the Minster of Justice directly at the ministry making clear that you are writing to minister (not the MP). MPs are not supposed to get into correspondence with other MPs constituents. But they can respond as minster from the ministerial address and sometimes will do so. If you writer to the minister at the HofC not the ministry you'll get ignored.

Anyone wanting to write to his or her MP can get loads of useful details from Sex Matters including a clear break down of the issues with a downloadable copy of the document produced by this staff group.

Excellent summary piece by Sex Matters which has lots of details if anyone wants to take this to their MP

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/mass-harassment-in-hm-prisons-and-probation-service/

I can't write to my MP as I have just written about something else (and too many letters starts to make you look like a nutter). If anyone does write and gets a MoJ response it would great if you didn't mind sharing it with us!

Tomorrow is oral questions for justice. I wonder if this isn't urgent question territory really. It seems a clear indication that parts of the civil service have been infiltrated, activists within it are undermining Parliament and democracy, and have the aim of marginalising women and removing, and dismantling the public protection framework.

Anyone know how you get an urgent question raised?!

I don't think this meets the bar for an urgent question, which is pretty high. MoJ have already responded and made clear this isn't departmental policy. I am sure further conversations are taking place internally...

Maybe not then. Though I'd have thought MoJ would need to address this. They can't leave it hanging. They've got duties to a workforce.

Well that’s me told!

In fact I have had success tweeting ministers in the past especially as I was also tweeting the newspaper or journalist. I teamed up via tweets and then emails with members of the HoL to get the Home Office to correct their website when they misstated the PC. I have also got another Government Department to change documentation that they sent me with incorrect PC. I have been doing this for years.

My MP is full on TWAW so the chances of getting anywhere by writing to him is nil.

Rather that telling people that they are wasting their time how about recognising that a multi pronged approach works. The more pressure ministers get via newspaper articles, social media, questions from MPs, questions in the HOL the better.

Didn't you get the memo?

As a biological female your language at all times must revolve around the requirements, demands and today's current wishes of less than 1% of biological males and a lot of extremely dodgy 'allies' who are not TQ+ but are loving the authoritarian follower personality outlet to scold and harass and bully in the name of righteousness like a bunch of 1930s Enid Blyton characters who repeatedly tell their kids 'not to talk to those nasty uneducated oiks' and spend a lot of time competitively being better than each other.

The requirements are subject to sudden change without notice, will make no sense, and essentially any word you require or start to use in order to express yourself in any way that does not wholly centre those people while pretending no one else on the planet matters or even exists, is 'hate' and 'dogwhistles' and Other Words Too. Cos Reasons. Imagine you're playing a game with a very spoilt preschooler who changes the rules constantly to keep control and has a rage if you get even one roll of the dice better than them.

I'm afraid I binned the memo as it's ludicrous and I don't play silly games like this.

To be fair, if you DO have a decent MP (i.e. one doing their job, who knows how many of those there are around) @FromAMNtter is totally right. No point contacting a department or minister directly unless you're a very notable person - no one important will evem look at it. By going through your MP, you will get a proper answer. If you're really lucky, the MP will take notice if the actual content and bring it up separately too.

Whoever created this is following the debate very, very closely. They see how obviously true women’s points are and also how successful we have been at explaining the issues to a wider public. I doubt very much this was created without input from others because they have dragged in even the most innocuous references that women use to discuss Gender Ideology and tried to frame them as sinister.

There is a constant pattern of women dragging the truth and real issues out into the public square to be examined and debated openly, while Trans Activists stay hidden and use the corridors of power to influence key individuals behind the scenes. They can never openly debate, but can only demonize.

Just as in public women are open about who we are, while TRAs cover their faces and are scared to be identified while being threatening and abusive. It’s literally the difference between light and darkness. They prefer to remain in the shadows and anonymous, to try and obscure, confuse and move the levers of power in secret.

That's a wise post Runover Safeguarding training teaches you that there's a balance between vigilance and paranoia. It also teaches never to be afraid to think the unthinkable - the worst case scenario.
In our justice system, from the days of the dire CPS "trans guidelines" for schools (now withdrawn rather than face judicial scrutiny), the current grim CPS consultation attempting to remove the right to consent to sex with someone hiding their sex and now this edict from individuals in the MoJ, there's a common theme. That of deliberately eroding the safety / safeguarding and rights of others, especially women and children. No matter how you dress it up, that's the desired outcome of all these initiatives.
That's sinister - that suggests that in addition to the captured and unthinking, there are likely some very dubious / dangerous individuals / groups driving all this. I'd like to be wrong but.....

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3809302-CPS-school-hate-crime-guidance-we-must-complain:

And now tell me again how Transactivism (in its current form) doesn’t have the single goal of destroying all safe-guarding. Their focus on making all language unspeakable that could identify any sexual abuse risks that women and children face is laser-sharp.

The Sex Matters post on this issue recommends that individuals within the MOJ consider raising a discrimination claim against the PIPP network that sent the email. This would be a good time for the new SEEN network to coordinate discrimination claims that people may be concerned about submitting as a lone individual. Raising such a claim individually in an organisation that it so captured by gender ideology is a scary prospect and I bet few do, for fear of the stress involved, reprisals from management, career impact and the rest of it. However I think it’s really important that people feel empowered to do so. I understand that SEEN are in the process of replying to people in the CS that are interested in becoming members of the network, so they’re busy right now. But it would be great if they were able to give concerned CS employees a steer on this. Or perhaps it’s outside of their remit, I’m not really sure how it works??

I'm greatly worried by this talking in 'code' thing they say we do. I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it seems to me to be from the vocabulary of abusers. I lived with an emotionally abusive man for years and he would talk like that. He never accepted that I meant what I said and to take it at face value. No, I always had another agenda. According to him. And, of course, I stopped talking.

It's so painful to see coercive control / abuse of (mainly) women carried out in the workplace isn't it Rightsraptor?
Until the Civil Service remembers its core function (and the Nolan principles of public life) these groups won't stop - they think they're untouchable with their behaviour escalating to even more extreme levels. Like the unhinged transactivists in the US stripping, spitting and abusing / threatening women with violence, they're out of control and out of touch.

It is great that you are having success with tweets but I see people tag minsters all day on twitter and beggar all generally comes of it; what you say is unusual. Absolutely, a multi-pronged approached can be useful and tweeting is better than nothing, but a minister is bound to give more weight to concerns raised by post via an MP (which requires effort) than tagging people in on twitter which is the work of a moment. Scrolling the the 'tweets and replies' for the MoJ for example clearly shows they don't interact with anyone except to RT other departments.

This is why when campaigns are started by Sex Matters or one of the other groups they suggest you write to your MP - they don't say tweet about it. There is no doubt it is the gold standard for impressing the strength of your opinion onto decision makers. I dunno why this is controversial.

Perhaps you should reread your original message and think about the impact it would have had on someone who was starting out on a campaigning journey. Not everyone on this board has been working on this topic for long and may just be taking their first steps. To be lectured as you did and basically be told that what they had done was pointless was patronising and could easily discourage someone from taking the next step.

I've been doing this so long now I will take the action that I think is appropriate and campaign in the way that I want be it twitter, letters to Government departments and charity trustees, contacting peers etc. but if I had just been starting out I would have probably walked away from the board after your post.
I want us to celebrate every person who takes action whether it's wearing a scarf, sending a tweet or asking a question in work about a policy. It all counts and nobody should be made to feel that their contribution is unimportant or meaningless.

Somebody spent some time reading Mumsnet to build that list of coded language (or the truth, as it's otherwise known).

Why is taxpayer money being spent on harassing Ministry of Justice employees about legally protected views they may or may not hold?

Why is taxpayer money spent on sex change operations, brainwashing Stonewall/Mermaids propaganda in schools, and damaging drugs for kids?!

Here’s a crazy idea: more taxpayer money for cancer treatments and hospital beds, and less taxpayer money trying to pacify the demands of extremist ideologists.

Here’s another crazy idea: stop the police recording as hate crime statements such as “a man cannot actually become a woman” and I think you’ll find that the amount of hate crime against trans people is not actually going up at all. Unlike misogyny and violence against women, which continues to rise...

But we’d better not discuss protecting women from violence, in case that discussion hurts men’s feelings.

Did you know we are all speaking in code?

Accusations are admissions.
Let them decode that.