Munroe Bergdorf has a Glamour Woman of the Year award

[AngeloMysterioso]

GLAMOUR and UOMA Beauty's Beauty Game-Changer of the year apparently.

Guess they couldn’t find any actual women deserving of the accolade… wonder how hard they looked?

Well it seems you do, if calling a male a "he" gets posts deleted

To summarise. Bergdorf has:

• made homophobic comments
• made racist comments
• lauded a "child drag artist" about whom it was known had been pictured with naked adult men
• encouraged children to make contact via DM
• been dropped by or had to leave the NSPCC, Childline, Labour, and L'Oreal

And in response to all this evidence as to why such a person should not be held up as any kind of role model, we get ramblings with no evidence, and which ends with a lust for high end luxury goods/fashion?

From the photo it looks like Munro has had surgery to look more white (or possibly east asian) as well as more feminine. Not THAT proud of their black heritage it would appear.

I really do see why posters moan about threads from this topic coming up on Active. It's a cesspit.

FWR is not a cesspit. It's somewhere where evidence is put forward, debated and tested.

But people don't like that because it means their usual tactics for winning arguments (lying, ad hominems, strawmanning, derailing etc) don't work here.

I don't need to win any arguments. I have said a million times before elsewhere on this forum that I really no longer want to talk about race on this site. It's like going on a vegan forum and extolling the virtues of a bacon sandwich. 'Race' isn't to me something that requires 'debate' - that's not the way I view it. I had said a few times upthread my views on biology and my specific comments on Munroe. But it really doesn't matter.

Ah, #nodebate. Got it

It's like going on a vegan forum and extolling the virtues of a bacon sandwich

So trolling then? You came on the sex and gender forum and told us you’re a huge fan of a male who claims to be a woman even though this male is a proven liar, homophobe and misogynist, someone who has no regard for safeguarding, but once said something about race you’ve taken to be true despite their track record of blatantly speaking falsehoods.

This isn’t a thread about race, it’s about a male winning an award for women. Can you explain how Bergdorf’s views on race mean that Bergdorf deserves a prize for women? It was you that brought up this as one of Bergdorf’s virtues, so presumably it’s relevant.

Yes when it comes to racism absolutely yes. A huge element of why things are the way they are is because in the UK at least any discussion about it is prefaced with 'Does racism exist?' - You'd be lucky to get the word 'still' in there. There's nowhere to really argue from there because the premise renders it a 'both sides' argument. I can't imagine someone asking in 2022 on BBC Politics when discussing something like the cost of childcare 'Are women still paying the price for having children?' Because it would be ridiculous. But alas, this thread was not intended to be about Munroe's race. So feel free to continue calling her a man as you wish within the talk guidelines, of course.

That comment was to @ResisterRex but the same applies.

As stated, these are my reasons why this person is not a role model:

• made homophobic comments
• made racist comments
• lauded a "child drag artist" about whom it was known had been pictured with naked adult men
• encouraged children to make contact via DM
• been dropped by or had to leave the NSPCC, Childline, Labour, and L'Oreal

Without evidence to refute these points, those concerns remain.

But alas, this thread was not intended to be about Munroe's race

So why did you bring it up then?!

Let me get this straight:

Bergdorf has expressed one view once about race, and that expunged all else Bergdorf has done and therefore should be celebrated with a prize for women?

Vladimir, how can you say Munro is a beautiful woman (due to plastic surgery) based on their visual appearance but simultaneously deny that they are visually less black looking. The two photographs on this thread show this change very clearly the latter one being an earlier photo. You claim to be impressed by Munro's words, but actions speak louder.

Vlad I agree in the main with what you, and MB, say about racism. I do think white culture and history is drenched in it and not acknowledging it is harmful and just leads to more generations of it. And yes MN has that in oodles.

What I can't square is MB then colonising womanhood, doing utterly male things to belittle and steal from women and not see that men are drenched in sexism. And identifying out of it is no more possible than what Rachel Dolezal did. It is such a massive cognitive mismatch.

A cesspit, eh?

Did I miss your acknowledgement of the homophobic and misogynistic things Bergdorf has said? And of the dismissal of safeguarding practices?

Have you acknowledged that Bergdorf may have crossed the line numerous times and NOT be a role model to be awarded a ‘game changer’ award for any sex.

Maybe Munroe's plastic surgeon should get the award.

Or it should be renamed: Best performance of femininity, judged by patriarchal standards.

@elgreco Where have I denied that Munroe is "less black looking"?

This part you say here: "but simultaneously deny that they are visually less black looking."

Can you tell me where I said that because you'd need to report me there for making a racist comment.

Yep

I get your take. I really like Tony Blair for his work to eliminate child poverty. I don't care about the Iraq war. Many people disagree with me.

I think Munroe's comments about race were raw and strong and probably true. I think it's wrong that Munroe was dropped by L'Oréal for saying that.

Do I think Munroe should get a Woman of the Year award? No, because they were not born a woman.

I'm not @VladmirsPoutine but that doesn't sound bigoted to me.
I think there's truth embedded in the comment.
I say this as someone who is white.

I think Munroe's comments about race were raw and strong and probably true. I think it's wrong that Munroe was dropped by L'Oréal for saying that

Do I think Munroe should get a Woman of the Year award? No, because they were not born a woman

yes, you can agree with one thing but not everything

Great post

But it still hasn’t been explained how one is meant to believe Bergdorf when Bergdorf talks about their own personal experiences of race when Bergdorf clearly lies about other aspects of their life.

With Blair, you can see his actions on child poverty and compare his actions on the war in Iraq.

With Bergdorf, we have words coming out of Bergdorf’s mouth that are demonstrably false: “I am a woman”, yet we are supposed to believe the words coming out of Bergdorf’s mouth that start with “Here’s my experience of race”. Why?

It’s not just Bergdorf. If any male claiming such an audacious lie about their sex claims anything, I’m inclined to take a skeptical view first. If Eddie Izzard did the weather report saying it was going to be sunny, I’d take an umbrella.

I just don’t understand how anyone can put any unquestioning stock in anything said by someone so determined to try and convince the world about something so fundamentally false.

I don’t understand why so many brands/companies want to disengage with their core audience…actual women.
At the end of the day all this is about is money. When profits suffer, things will change again.