JK Rowling hits out at first feminist Sturgeon

[JanieAllen]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jk-rowling-hits-out-at-first-feminist-sturgeon-over-trans-laws-2tz8mj386

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But we've been told that counselling and psychological support are akin to conversion therapy and are inappropriate for trans children. Affirmation is the only way. How do we know which children to affirm and which to counsel?

Surely the safer option, given the issues of the medical pathway, is to counsel all children until they reach an age to make a mature and considered decision fully understanding all the possible outcomes.

*Why do you guys focus so much on negatives?

Do you understand that the vast majority of us are concerned with safeguarding vulnerable women and children?

Focusing on the negatives is a necessity for successful safeguarding. We must focus on the worst case scenarios if we want to find ways to prevent them.

Ignoring the positives the reason why so many detransition is many find it hard to live in a society with so many against trans people and many actually go back to being trans but I think there are far more positive stories don’t always focus on negatives.

There is no data at all showing that a) the majority of detransitioners do so because of transphobia and b) how many detransitioners transition again.

Also, and this matters when we are discussing a medical approach that proposes treating a mental illness by treating a healthy body in a wholly unhealthy way, the studies we have from children like Georgie Stone, a homosexual transsexual, is that the vast majority of these children with gender dysphoria do not grow up to be transsexual adults, but homosexual or bisexual adults. These children are unnecessarily harmed by the current affirmative approach.

There is no data available yet on the new cohort of children who only present in adolescence and post-adolescence with gender dysphoria as to whether transitioning helps them at all. The available data on children like Stone regarding the efficacy of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to treat their mental health issues is sketchy to put it politely.

This matters, because these children end up with a dependency on lifelong life-limiting medical treatments, with impaired fertility, arrested brain development, bone density issues, sterility and complete loss of sexual function. Plus a whole slew of health issues, because a regimen of cross-sex hormones for life is a regimen of lifelong harm to the body. There's plenty of discussions about those issues on message boards frequented by people who have medically transitioned if you care to look.

And with that being said, your insistence on focusing on the positives is an insistence on ignoring children being harmed right now and ignoring that ever more children will be put at risk of being harmed. That’s what it means to ignore the negatives.

You may be comfortable with that. We're not.

Nobody in the trans community believes that psychological help is conversion therapy. Obv if the psychologist has an agenda that kids can’t be trans before they meet said kid yes that’s conversion therapy but exploring it is fine in fact many trans people think more help is needed

She seems happy now maybe ask the trans adults now that many seem happy that they had puberty blockers etc

Sadly trans people are being failed by an ideologically-driven model of treatment.

I completely agree that we urgently need far more and far better mental health support for children.

Children need to be supported and given non judgmental space to explore their feelings and any comorbidities/issues.

Why do 'you lot' focus on the negatives? Seriously?

Because not looking at the nasty bits and pretending they're not there does not make them go away.

This is something that a functional adult is usually able to get a grip on.

Fine but then fail to say that there are trans kids because there are etc that’s the thing look at negatives but you guys never look at the positives though

Ok so what happens if they explore feelings but like Georgia stone then fought for puberty blockers and were happy on these then went and had sex reassignment surgery again was happy are you ok with that ? She had surgery at 18 so again are you happy with that for me I see many are not

I notice you ignored my question above. What makes a child 'trans'? Are they born in the wrong body? Or is there some other explanation?

Great

how can I tell the difference between Georgia stone and a boy?

Rushed? It's been delayed and scrutinised for a very long time.

Rowling has been taking pot shots at Sturgeon for a long time now, this isn't exactly news.

Because it will encourage young people to have hormones , puberty blockers and surgery . Just look at American sites of de transitioners. It’s absolutely heartbreaking. Lives ruined for a lie .

@Freespirit42 My son believed he was trans from the age of 14/15 until he was over 18. He went to GIDS at the Tavistock and before lockdown he was on course to get referred for hormones and surgery. If it wasn’t for lockdown happening and having everything paused he would be well down the transitioning route by now.
Instead, during lockdown he got a job and lived a real life, away from the internet. He is living perfectly happily now as a bisexual male, having the time of his life.
So for those almost 5 years many people would have described him as a ‘trans kid’. But he was just confused. And you are wrong, many in the trans community are against psychological therapy, they see it as conversion therapy. If my son hadn’t had a good therapist at GIDS (a therapist who left in the end, due to the ‘affirmation only’ approach that was being pushed) and time away from all the ideology then could have gone down a pathway which was not what he ultimately wanted.

Look, have you done any safeguarding training?

When a kid is at risk you don't say oh but let's not be negative, there are nice things in this situation too. Because the priority is to prevent harm. Not to celebrate gratitudes and positivity. That does not work much in safeguarding, it really doesn't.

You cannot justify lifelong distress and harm to some because others are happy with a process. There is a duty to protect all of them, not just the ones it works for.

There's much to be said for advocating acceptance of our bodies. We wouldn't agree that a young person with anorexia should be encouraged to lose weight, or someone with limb dysphoria should have a healthy limb amputated. We recognise there are mental health issues at play. No different to someone with gender dysphoria taking drugs which will impact their health and wellbeing for the rest of their lives. Sometimes, children need to be told, no, this is not possible, it will harm you in ways you cannot imagine.
Post edited by MNHQ

I take it we’re not going to get a list of the differences between a trans girl and a boy then

Or a list of what 'living as a woman' entails. I'd be interested in that one because I get the feeling I'm doing it wrong.

Katie Dolatowski was a trans girl a few years ago.
Are you saying Katie is allowed to go into the girls loos?

I really wouldn’t take too much time engaging with Freespirit he/she always pops up on trans threads (especially the ones about Scotland) in defence of biological men who feel like women but without any clear/rational argument and also never answers the questions put to them but instead comes out with, yes, a stream of poorly punctuated and usually senseless strawmen “arguments”. I don’t know whether they are trying to be goady or genuinely believe the shite they spout.

(either that or it’s Nicola herself)..

The phrase “you can’t argue with stupid” always springs to mind when reading their posts.

I always translate "living as" in my head to "pretending to be". Makes things much clearer and I don't think any meaning is lost.

So there is no need for women to "live as" women, we just are.

"Trans women already have legal access to toilets and other safe spaces. It's covered under the equality act..."

Correct

The majority of MSOs voted for it because they were told they’d be kicked out the party if they didn’t.

If Sturgeon really believed in this policy she’d allow a free vote on it.

Pyjamas. I am a woman and pyjamas are a very important part of my life.