Page 9 | When did this board become a "safe space"?

OmiOmy · 2022-11-10T07:25:34+00:00

Long time poster here, name changed. I've recently seen this board as being described as a "space space"? This has happened a few Wikipedia says ^ The term safe space refers to places "intended to be free of bias, conflict, criticism, or potentially threatening actions, ideas, or conversations".^ Well, going by that, it's hardly a safe space, is it? We have robust discussions here that are rarely seen on other parts of the internet. I don't know, I feel cross and disheartened to hear the term "safe space" being ascribed to this board as if we're too fragile to cope. Ugh. Instead I would describe this board as broadly supportive, wouldn't you?

Helleofabore · 11/11/2022 19:37

Oh. And by the way, we will be happy to post males in caring positions who have crossed those boundaries. It has already happened.

The question is, how was it allowed, do posters support males being allowed to , and why they think it is appropriate.

Original poster

OmiOmy · 11/11/2022 20:20

@Mylittlesandwich I hope you do come back, even though it may feel uncomfortable with so many posters asking questions.

OP posts:

Original poster

OmiOmy · 11/11/2022 20:27

There's that GP in London, isn't there, who works in an area with large Muslim community and this TW doctor says the Muslim women have no problem with him. Creepy attitude.

OP posts:

nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 20:32

I think the GP's article explained the GPs personal pleasure that Muslim women who previously had refused intimate exams now accepted them in the GP's new identity, and how lovely an experience it was for them.

Which is indeed a very nice experience for them.

But wanting female people to validate you via intimate access to their body when you are supposed to be a professional who is focused on meeting their needs as you're being paid to instead of using their bodies for your meeting your own needs is extremely questionable behaviour.

And lets be honest, articles like this are intended to extend the idea that because some females are willing to consent, all females should be stripped of their right to consent if a TQ+ male is involved.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/11/2022 20:32

kamilla kamurrudin

Linky

Helleofabore · 11/11/2022 20:39

Yes. Dr kamurrudin.

And don’t let us forget Mridul Wadhwa. The rape crisis centre CEO in a care position. One who left the SNP when the six word amendment went through.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 20:58

nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 20:32

I think the GP's article explained the GPs personal pleasure that Muslim women who previously had refused intimate exams now accepted them in the GP's new identity, and how lovely an experience it was for them.

Which is indeed a very nice experience for them.

But wanting female people to validate you via intimate access to their body when you are supposed to be a professional who is focused on meeting their needs as you're being paid to instead of using their bodies for your meeting your own needs is extremely questionable behaviour.

And lets be honest, articles like this are intended to extend the idea that because some females are willing to consent, all females should be stripped of their right to consent if a TQ+ male is involved.

The violation of women and the validation for the GP make me feel physically sick.

Do you think this is acceptable @Mylittlesandwich ?

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:07

Right, I'm back. I'll reply to as many as I can this evening before I head to bed. This might take a while.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:11

OmiOmy · 11/11/2022 16:27

I mean someone that looks female. If they were around you you would assume they had been female all their life. Not "a wig and some lipstick".

What does looks got to do with being female though? It's how you are born. I think that's a fundamental point we won't agree on. Males cannot become females. So when I ask for a female nurse a cervical smear test, I expect an adult human female. You using sex/gender and using female when you mean male "presenting" as a woman feels very confused.

Also, not all males who say they identify as women wear lipstick and a wig. Some even have beards - what's your take on that?

Starting here, gender is more than just what you look like so my view is that (with exceptions as there are in any group of people) most trans women are genuine beard or otherwise. There are terrible people in any walk of life and of course trans women are not immune to this.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:14

@Helleofabore

"To clarify. If a male who identifies as a woman knows that a patient may be distressed by them being male, and has explicitly and clearly asked that they only have a female carer, do you think that this is ok?*"
*
We won't agree here because my opinion is that if someone has transitioned to female then they are female so would fall under the bracket of female when requesting a female practitioner. I'm aware this will strike a nerve, I'm no expert, this is my personal opinion.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:18

@Brokendaughter and I agree with you there. If you think I've said something ridiculous then fine, that's ok. But if for example you were to turn around and tell me that I am a terrible person and I don't deserve to be a mother (that is what was said before) then that I would be upset with and feel it was uncalled for.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:21

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:14

@Helleofabore

"To clarify. If a male who identifies as a woman knows that a patient may be distressed by them being male, and has explicitly and clearly asked that they only have a female carer, do you think that this is ok?*"
*
We won't agree here because my opinion is that if someone has transitioned to female then they are female so would fall under the bracket of female when requesting a female practitioner. I'm aware this will strike a nerve, I'm no expert, this is my personal opinion.

It is impossible for a male to transition to female, female and male are sexes and it is a sheer impossibility to change sex. The certificate than some apply for acknowledges this as it is a GENDER Recognition Certificate NOT a Sex Recognition Certificate and holders of said certificate are still legally excluded from areas by dint of their SEX.

Nice to know you are all for women's boundaries being trampled over and their bodies violated and used as validation tools for males - refreshing honesty even though it is repugnant.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:25

@BernardBlacksMolluscs it would never be my intention to cause further harm to someone who has been through something as harmful as rape or SA. And truthfully I don't know how I would react in that situation. I would expect any healthcare provider would act with grace and dignity and want to support that victim however they could, even if that may be hurtful to them on a personal level. Because let's face it in this moment it isn't about them, it's about the person who has been through that traumatic event. I think this is a situation which needs further thought and consideration. Bother from my personal point of view and probably a legal one.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:29

Helleofabore · 11/11/2022 17:45

any time I've been to a spa it's been an individual cubicle where I cared not a jot for the gender of the person in the next room but I would say generally anyone of any gender behaving in a predatory way in a changing room or any other area should be swiftly barred.

Now that we have established the facts around the 'WiSpa' incident. Shall we now discuss the very real changing rooms that do not have the individual cubicles you have encountered. I have been in plenty of gym, and swimming pool / beach changing facilities that do not have individual cubicles. What then? Considering the pool and beach facilities are also places where I take my child, what do you think of the males who expect to change in these facilities?

And just to be sure that you understand, this has happened to the young females who swam with Lia Thomas at the start of the year. Thomas was naked there in the changing rooms with those young females and they complained and were told that they should seek counselling to cope by their university. If you listen to the accounts of those young females, they mention that it can take 15 minutes to get their competitive swimsuits on.

What about when transitioned males do NOT use the individual cubicles? Is that ok too? Young women should just take up their university's offer and get counselling to cope with seeing a male with a penis in their changing room?

Should gender identity be prioritised over sex in this situation? Or do you still consider gender to be interchangeable with sex? (I am referring to You want to call it sex I want to call it gender.)

And that is without covering the fact that those females then had to also cope with a male with male pubertal advantages that cannot be reduced competing and winning in the female sports category.

Should gender identity be prioritised over sex in sports? Or do you still consider gender to be interchangeable with sex?

As I said, anyone of any gender or orientation behaving inappropriately in a space like a changing room has no place there. As far as trans women having a physical advantage over those who were born female hormone blockers and other hormone treatments should lessen these advantages.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:30

Helleofabore · 11/11/2022 17:56

So you feel that you have a right to every nurses medical history to check for a gender transition before they are allowed near you?

To clarify my questions asked on a couple of posts that I hope that sandwich will come back later to.

No. But I certainly feel that I have the right to expect my wishes to be respected by males who identify as their interpretation of a woman who is a health care profession about to do an intimate procedure.

That you cannot look at any woman and allow them to be a woman. You have to know what genitals they had at birth?

No. But I certainly feel that if a person was male that they would have the respect to not defy my stated boundaries. Why on earth would any health professional think that this was in anyway appropriate?

Okay, that's your right to have those opinions. I simply disagree.

Do you disagree? You disagree that a female should be able to request that they have only another female do an intimate procedure and expect that the person who comes will be female and never male?

I don't disagree but my definition of female and yours are not the same.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:30

As far as trans women having a physical advantage over those who were born female hormone blockers and other hormone treatments should lessen these advantages.

Should - gosh how very comforting.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:33

I don't disagree but my definition of female and yours are not the same.

And yours is completely at odds with the legal definition enshrined in statute.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:33

nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 20:32

I think the GP's article explained the GPs personal pleasure that Muslim women who previously had refused intimate exams now accepted them in the GP's new identity, and how lovely an experience it was for them.

Which is indeed a very nice experience for them.

But wanting female people to validate you via intimate access to their body when you are supposed to be a professional who is focused on meeting their needs as you're being paid to instead of using their bodies for your meeting your own needs is extremely questionable behaviour.

And lets be honest, articles like this are intended to extend the idea that because some females are willing to consent, all females should be stripped of their right to consent if a TQ+ male is involved.

If this GPs "pleasure" at the situation is to do with being accepted as female in their place of work I can kind of see how that would make them happy and content within their life.

If it's another kind of pleasure derived from these examinations then that wouldn't be acceptable if they were male of female.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:35

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:30

As far as trans women having a physical advantage over those who were born female hormone blockers and other hormone treatments should lessen these advantages.

Should - gosh how very comforting.

Well I'm not an expert, this is just my understanding.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:35

If I've missed anything can you please let me know. I have ADHD and found the pile of posts a wee bit hard to follow.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:37

It's patently obvious you are not an expert and yet here you are willing to flush women and girls boundaries down the toilet in order that men can be happy and content because of your opinion.

nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 22:38

It's very lovely that the GP is feeling happy and contented with their life.

However they are doing it by using females providing intimate access to get those lovely feelings. Whether they are using them for emotional pleasure or sexual pleasure - well what's the difference? Using intimate access to female bodies for ANY personal agenda is unacceptable and unprofessional.

If you work in these fields you are expected, as standard, to examine all the time 'am I choosing to do this because of my patient/client's best interests or because I am using this to meet my own needs'. It's a part of professional practice. This is not acceptable behaviour.

And that still does not address that articles like this are intended to shift the boundaries from 'some females consent and that is so lovely for me as a validating experience' to 'it is unacceptable for any female to deny a male hcp that validation hence they should not be permitted to refuse consent regardless of their needs, feelings and medical best interest as a patient'.

Using females for male purposes is wrong. They are not props in male lives. They do not exist as therapeutic resources for males.

Using patients and intimate access to their bodies in health care as a personal experience and a hcp placing their desire to meet their own needs using that person's body above the person's consent and best interests? That isn't just wrong, that is abhorrent.

Mylittlesandwich · 11/11/2022 22:39

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:37

It's patently obvious you are not an expert and yet here you are willing to flush women and girls boundaries down the toilet in order that men can be happy and content because of your opinion.

You say that as if my opinions have the power to do that? I'm one single person? I could say I think every blade of grass should be dyed blue because my dog doesn't like green, that doesn't mean it would happen.

VestofAbsurdity · 11/11/2022 22:43

Yes but you are on the side of making it happen aren't you?

Your are at least honest about how little you value women and girls safety, privacy, dignity and comfort and how you prioritise males and their feeling, wants and wishes over and above women and girls which is unusual around these parts, especially on a Feminism Board.

nilsmousehammer · 11/11/2022 22:43

Is it ok to hold really dodgy opinions just because you personally can't make that thing happen? That seems a bit of a cop out really.

Isn't the point of debate and discussion to address and pin down in argument what is right, what is wrong? Why a belief is held and why you feel it is not wrong, and to be able to justify and evidence it? To listen to others' views and see how they affect and change viewpoints, and address issues and considerations you perhaps hadn't thought of?

I thought the complaint on this thread was that no one would properly discuss these issues.