When did this board become a "safe space"?

[OmiOmy]

Long time poster here, name changed.

I've recently seen this board as being described as a "space space"? This has happened a few

Wikipedia says The term safe space refers to places "intended to be free of bias, conflict, criticism, or potentially threatening actions, ideas, or conversations".

Well, going by that, it's hardly a safe space, is it? We have robust discussions here that are rarely seen on other parts of the internet.

I don't know, I feel cross and disheartened to hear the term "safe space" being ascribed to this board as if we're too fragile to cope. Ugh.

Instead I would describe this board as broadly supportive, wouldn't you?

I wrote to my MSP's about the Gender Recognition Bill Stage 1. One of my SNP MSP's replied to basically say 'anyone who is against this is a bigot'. He referenced the Scottish Government's first consultation (from several years ago) as 'proof' that the public support the reforms. Didn't reference the subsequent consultation which shows reduced support for the reforms or indeed this year's Call for Evidence which showed very clearly that the majority of respondents are against the reforms. The revolt by some SNP MSP's (the first such dissent in 15 years) during the vote has forced amendments, 100 of which will be discussed in a mere morning this coming week.

The Scottish Government, in their single minded zeal to push this through, are simply ignoring consultations and refusing to hear evidence from women, while chanting bigot at anyone who questions their actions. Chapman, Robison and Nicholson in particular have been utterly virulent in demonising women.

Regarding handling children and identities and toilets etc, I mean. The individual is v professional.

Yes. This whole 'identifying as that not having happened' thing is very useful to a political left who would like to be in a 'post democratic era' to quote Mandelson who explained this ambition in the Blair era.

A 'post democratic era' would be where the experts make the rules, where the proles shut up and do as they are told by their betters or else, and where democracy is prevented so that inconvenient things like the population of the UK can't get in the way of politicians' ivory tower hobby horses.

Another reason all left parties are currently unelectable.

That this is likely to lead to the general public reaching a post insane politician era doesn't seem to have occurred to them. It's like Brexit never happened, and they never saw what happens when you try to enforce an unwanted imposition on an angry subsection of society and shout 'bigot' at them a lot.

And like most of us here, I completely accept your right to make such comments. You will not be attacked, abused, threatened or doxxed. No one will express the wish that you die in a fire or that your children get cancer. No one here will attempt to find your RL identity, picket your house or try to get you sacked from your job.

We do tend to ask for evidence to back surprising assertions. As our TRA visitors can rarely provide such evidence, efforts to debate with them tend to fizzle out pretty quickly.

But unlike in the fiercely controlled places you call 'safe spaces', you are (as you know) perfectly safe here.

A professor spreading misinformation and trying to silence people who are pointing out the falsehood in what they are saying

That really is shameful from someone in a position of trust, someone who has been given the privilege and responsibility of teaching our children.

Just adding another 40 something male who is winning elite events in the female category.

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-12/trans-surfer-sasha-jane-lowerson-after-her-state/14017982

There are quite a number to be fair. 40 or 50 something males winning against much younger females in the female category.

Almost like male advantage cannot be mitigated with hormones after all… but I do look forward to posters posting examples of the elite females of the same age winning in competitions against other elite females who are much younger.

Almost like male advantage cannot be mitigated with hormones after all… but I do look forward to posters posting examples of the elite females of the same age winning in competitions against other elite females who are much younger.

Excess testosterone in females or indeed males is considered as doping and those doing it get banned, but a natural or marginally reduced testosterone level in a male that is way, way way outside the natural level found in females is a-ok for a male when he wants to compete against females - funny that.

Here is another real life example @Mylittlesandwich for you to consider.

This is what happens when males are given access to the changing rooms for females.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11366041/amp/School-let-trans-girl-making-threats-girl-complained-using-girls-bathroom.html

thenewamerican.com/vermont-high-school-backs-down-over-transgender-incident-after-adf-files-a-first-amendment-lawsuit/

“student, who has been playing on the female volleyball team since the start of the year, came into the locker rooms and ‘stared’ at some of the girls getting changed”

“The player had made an ‘inappropriate remarks.’”

This sounds very similar to what happened when Lia Thomas used the female change rooms, except Thomas was reported in changing openly and exposing their dick while doing so.

I also suggest you look up the Loudon County rape where a male who used the female toilets, claimed their rape of a girl at the school’s female toilets was them ‘falling’ against the girl…. That was the defensive I believe in the court case.

These incidences ARE happening

What is just as similar to the Lia Thomas case, is that the girls in this Vermont school were told they are at fault. The girl in the court case was punished for complaining?

All because some people either don’t believe in the scientifically proven fact there are two sexes and those sexes cannot change and so are ‘sex’ blind while believing ‘gender’ is real and should dictate safeguarding processes.

This is the outcome to claiming that ‘gender’ should be prioritised above the protections put in place for all females.

Do you agree with the policies being adopted by schools that allow these incidences to happen?

Do you think being ‘blind’ to sex and prioritising gender is the way to protect girls and women from males (even teens) doing ‘shitty’ things (to use your own term), or do you think that maybe the many parents and women who spend time on this board scrutinising the policies and discussing the potential and real life outcomes have points that you have not considered or maybe did not know about?

I will stop now, and see if @Mylittlesandwich comes back to read and comment.

I fully accept that there are people who come on this board who have different opinions.

What I don’t accept is that posters who post snide, berating posts and deserve positive reactions and engagement.

Sorry me and the wee man have come down with covid. Feeling pretty rough so not intentionally ignoring this thread.

Sorry me and the wee man have come down with covid. Feeling pretty rough so not intentionally ignoring this thread.

Both of you sandwich? That is very tough. . I hope you both get better soon and that you have some help and care.

What helle said

its bad enough feeling sick yourself without throwing a sick child into the mix

get well soon

Both of us, I only had it about 5 weeks ago too. Thanks for the well wishes.

*I fully accept that there are people who come on this board who have different opinions.

What I don’t accept is that posters who post snide, berating posts and deserve positive reactions and engagement.*

Agreed.

This is an observation, not a criticism. Do you think people who genuinely want to debate and lay out their ideas (like Mylittlesandwich here) could find it overwhelming when more than 1 or 2 posters keep posting and asking lots of questions? I know I would start getting defensive and probably disengage.

@Mylittlesandwich Hope you and your boy get better soon.

This is an observation, not a criticism. Do you think people who genuinely want to debate and lay out their ideas (like Mylittlesandwich here) could find it overwhelming when more than 1 or 2 posters keep posting and asking lots of questions? I know I would start getting defensive and probably disengage.

I am sure it is overwhelming. However, if you, general you, cannot adequately defend your opinions against a group asking questions that you cannot answer, do you then accuse that group of being unable to allow other opinions?

Or do you acknowledge that maybe the questions asked are not ones you have ever considered and maybe further discussion is warranted. As has been done.

And by further discussion, I mean discussion. Not resorting to telling others they are creating a hostile environment by asking questions that challenge opinions (which neither autie or sandwich have done since they opened discussion on this thread, by the way. )

I know I would start getting defensive and probably disengage.

And that is absolutely fine to do.

What is not fine is then blaming others for your defensive reaction and accusing them of not being able to accept other opinions when that would at first glance be hypocritical behaviour.

This is an observation, not a criticism. Do you think people who genuinely want to debate and lay out their ideas (like Mylittlesandwich here) could find it overwhelming when more than 1 or 2 posters keep posting and asking lots of questions? I know I would start getting defensive and probably disengage.

Yes. But that's the problem with gender ideology, it can't handle questions.

Most people on here know that the argument for allowing men into women spaces crumbles upon challenge. Both the batshit arguments from TRAs and the why can't we just play nicely arguments from people who haven't given it any extended thought.

The only way to expose the lack of argument is to ask questions.

And you can't force everyone on a thread to sit on their hands while one person gently teases out the naive arguments, and simultaneously annihilates the batshit ones.

Everyone wants to ask, because people are so bloody frustrated by the premise in the first place.

This is the ongoing thing.

This is a womens rights board. It centres adult human females. The experience of, the needs of, the issues of, the challenges, the voices. It's about the only place. You have the whole of the rest of the internet centering the TQ+ and specifically TQ+ male needs, voices, experiences, challenges.

The never ending whine of 'you don't let anyone debate' (so it's an 'echo chamber', God that phrase is so tired now, and therefore those women's voices are invalidated somehow despite being the only place on the internet where they're permitted to talk about these things at all) are invariably followed by what has happened here.

Debate.

Pages of it.

Women listening to what someone is saying with contrasting views, replying, unpicking them, pointing out their own responses in terms of feelings, insights, evidence to support what they are saying.

And then we get scolded for too many women wanting to debate and respond to a poster and participate in the debate in case the one with TQ+ centric views feels uncomfortable (no one incidentally gives a crap about whether those with women-centric views feel or if they're overwhelmed, or being listened to properly, and God knows on many other boards across the internet they'd be chased off in a massed pile on if they dared to speak at all), and a poster encountering actual debate generally either flounces or starts the 'you're being mean to poor me who just wanted to say' thing. It's groundhog day.

Let's face it, the bottom line of 'MN is an echo chamber' is actually 'if you argue back with these views, however right you may be you are a heretic who should not be allowed to speak at all'.

I suspect the only way those TQ+ politics focused people would ever agree women here were being nice enough was if they accepted TQ+ political (anti female) views unquestioningly and with applause. I am over being nice. I've been trying it for years. But if you keep on trying and trying your Patient Griselda act for years with no reciprocation, there comes a point where you are not being a Good Person, you are merely being a mug.

I wondered if we should have a vote off to the side on who would be the nominated question asker.

Maybe that is what is expected of us.

I mean, I look back on my posts sometimes and think ‘fuck!’. With the constant pretzeling of words to fit into the guidelines and auto corrections, and typing on a small screen with dodgy focus, it is hard enough to get the questions clear. If I could submit them to the committee, then someone could make sure they are edited properly too before they ask them one at a time.

Will that work?

Or can we just acknowledge that if posters are uncomfortable answering questions and cannot be as honest as posters such as autie and sandwich have been about maybe not having considered all the aspects or themselves getting defensive, that it is their own problem to deal with and maybe they need to go and develop stronger and more robust arguments rather than scolding and emotional manipulation.

I suspect many of the posters who turn up to scold and reprimand think that women shouldn’t challenge them at all and should just say ‘that is nice dear’ and then disappear.

I wondered if we should have a vote off to the side on who would be the nominated question asker.

Datun, obvs.

Another vote for Datun.

Possibly we could have a MN webchat style thingy, where all the questions are submitted in advance, then ONE of the easiest is chosen and an advisor writes a very careful answer that says screw you females naicely, and then we're told the subject is closed.

Cos we know all about that.

Or alternatively, we could just go on debating and wait for the rest of the world to start realising that nice, sentimental not looking at the nasty bits and facts sounds lovely, and you can waffle endlessly on paper about how lovely it is, but cold reality is - it doesn't work. Look how it's not working. The evidence is piling up past ignoring point that this is not working.

Well Datun, another vote from me…

Ha! 😁

Point taken.

Datun, an I'm GC - AMA