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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland Judicial Review 2

420 replies

Signalbox · 06/11/2022 10:44

For Women Scotland Judicial Review: mentioned today in the Times. I didn't realise that this was happening this week on 9th and 10th November according to FWS website...

forwomen.scot/01/09/2022/impact-of-second-judicial-review/

We have a petition for judicial review pending, averring that this revised guidance is not compliant with the court’s decision and is therefore unlawful. The Scottish Government has repeated its earlier error in law by incorporating transsexuals living as women (albeit now restricted to those who hold a GRC) into the definition of woman, thus conflating and confusing two protected characteristics. The Scottish Government has declined to remove the section referring to the GRA and have indicated that it is their understanding that a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Whether they believe a person’s biological sex changes on receipt of a GRC or whether they now dispute that the Equality Act refers to biological sex remains to be seen.

Permission has been granted for the judicial review and the substantive hearing date has been set for 9th and 10th November 2022.

We believe this case puts the Committee in a very difficult position as, until such time as the court makes a ruling, the proper relationship between the GRA and the Equality Act cannot be understood, and nor can the consequences of any legislative reform of the GRA.

If the Scottish Government is correct that a person’s sex changes in the Equality Act with a GRC then it follows that the statement to Committee by Cabinet Secretary, Shona Robison, that the GRR Bill “does not redefine what a man or a woman is”, is incorrect. Clearly, if men who hold a GRC (transwomen) are included in the definition of woman (and women who hold a GRC (transmen) are excluded), then changing the circumstances under which a person is entitled to a GRC will also have the effect of changing the definition of woman.

The GRR Bill proposes a significant change to the eligibility criteria for a GRC and will include, for the first time, those without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and those aged 16 and 17. The Scottish Government also estimates a tenfold increase in applications for a GRC. This diversification and expansion of GRC holders from the current situation will significantly change who is counted under the definition of woman.

Whether a person is defined as a man or a woman matters for the successful operation of the Equality Act across a broad range of provisions, including single-sex exceptions, equal pay claims and access to maternity rights, and we are concerned that this is underappreciated and poorly understood by the Scottish Government. It is, of course, vitally important because any action taken by the Scottish Parliament must be careful not to modify any of the protected characteristics, including the definition of woman, lest it strays into reserved matters.

The Scottish Government seems hopelessly confused and inconsistent when it comes to the definition of woman, with at least three different definitions currently in operation across various pieces of legislation and policy. Contrary to the position outlined above, it fully understood that sex was biological when SNP MSPs voted in favour of the Lamont amendment to substitute gender with sex in the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) Bill to ensure a request for a female medical examiner resulted in the provision of exactly that, and not a man with a GRC (transwoman).

At the other extreme, the Cabinet Secretary again contradicted the Scottish Government’s current position by asserting a GRC is not required for a man to fall under the definition of woman and access single-sex services for that sex, when she said to Parliament that “the 2010 Act does not apply exceptions specifically to toilets and changing rooms. Trans people can and do use those now, whether they have a GRC or not, and they have been using them for many years.” This fails to recognise the single-sex mandates in legislation relating to schools and workplaces as well as specific examples in the Equality Act Explanatory Notes – we have written separately to you about this matter.

A recent Scottish Government public consultation on the Review of Funding and Commissioning of Violence Against Women and Girls Services redefined a woman as “anyone who defines themselves as a woman”. Not only does this circular statement flagrantly disregard the Inner House ruling but it fails to recognise funding for women’s services can only be allocated via positive action measures in s158 of the Equality Act so must adhere to the protected characteristics. Our letters to both the review group and the Scottish Ministers asking for the consultation to be withdrawn and reissued with a correction have not received any response. We further note the Scottish Government only accepts applications for funding from individual women’s services on production of a LBTI inclusion policy that is transwomen inclusive. Again, this is not dependent on holding a GRC.

In summary, we believe the revised statutory guidance for the Gender Representation on Public Boards Act is unlawful. The Scottish Government believe otherwise and maintain a GRC changes a person’s sex for the purposes of the Equality Act. Not only does this decouple women’s biological sex from sex-specific provisions in the Equality Act, but it means reforming the GRA also carries a serious risk of intruding on reserved matters. The Scottish Government has a history of inconsistency and lack of understanding on both the definition of woman and the operation of the Equality Act. All of this leaves the Committee exposed, trying to make good law in the midst of a live court action, the outcome of which materially affects the reform.

OP posts:
GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 11:37

Anyone know why the delay from 10am to noon? I can't find anything online to explain what's happening.

I'm both hopeful & dreading this at the same time 😬

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 11:38

Ignore me - I see there's an embargo on talking about it til noon.

Still nail biting waiting this long...

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 11:46

AutumnCrow · 13/12/2022 08:26

It’s going to be a long morning, waiting to know if reality still exists.

If it turns out that it doesn't, then this will be the first really big step towards the repeal of the GRA.

It will be inevitable. This is not going to end well for the TQ+ political movement which ever way it goes. This is a demonstration really of what happens when you can't stop yourself pushing until something breaks. There was never a need for this extremist women-harming nutjobbery, this could have worked with a bit of sense and reciprocation. But that ship sailed years ago.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/12/2022 11:51

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 11:46

If it turns out that it doesn't, then this will be the first really big step towards the repeal of the GRA.

It will be inevitable. This is not going to end well for the TQ+ political movement which ever way it goes. This is a demonstration really of what happens when you can't stop yourself pushing until something breaks. There was never a need for this extremist women-harming nutjobbery, this could have worked with a bit of sense and reciprocation. But that ship sailed years ago.

Yes, they've blotted their own copybook with all the threats, aggression and undiluted misogyny.

Whichever way this result goes, 'For Women Scotland' are one amazing group of people.

I am waiting with bated breath, too.

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 11:55

my breath is so bated I'm going a bit blue.

Wait, no, that's just the cold.

Princessglittery · 13/12/2022 11:58

So where’s it likely to be posted first Twitter?

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:03

Surely they should be all set to post the outcome after 2 hrs of knowing?

C'mon FWS! Put us out of our misery!

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:04

<eats desk>

Numsmetbunfight · 13/12/2022 12:04

My nails!

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:06

My nails have gone & im starting on the stubby ends now. 😬

Hoardasurass · 13/12/2022 12:06

I think I've broken the refresh button 🙃

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 12:09

Yes, that pinned tweet is getting very familiar.

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2022 12:09

Maybe they forgot?

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:11

That's plausible.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 13/12/2022 12:11

Argh

refresh

refresh

Helleofabore · 13/12/2022 12:12

maybe twitter is broken

bellinisurge · 13/12/2022 12:12

"Are we nearly there yet?" vibes

CharlieParley · 13/12/2022 12:13

More likely very very busy writing a statement either way. Don't forget they've also had a mad day yesterday because of Beira's Place. They're only human after all...

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:13

I blame Musk.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:14

2 words.

We won!

Or

We lost 😞

The statement can follow.

<bah humbug vibes & stamps feet>

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 12:14

Was it the Allison Bailey case where the judgement was delayed like this? Presumably FWS have their statement ready to go having already seen the decision - do they have to wait for the judge to say some magic words that lift the embargo?

TinFoilHatty · 13/12/2022 12:15

I'll take one for the team by goingto make early lunch. That should prompt an announcement.

Signalbox · 13/12/2022 12:15

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:14

2 words.

We won!

Or

We lost 😞

The statement can follow.

<bah humbug vibes & stamps feet>

Me too. I'm so impatient. The suspense is giving me palpitations :D

OP posts:
GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/12/2022 12:16

We appreciate your sacrifice Tinfoil.

🙌

ResisterRex · 13/12/2022 12:16

Does it have to be published here or have I got the wrong site completely? Because it's not here:

www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/court-of-session