How many transwomen/trans girls detransition?

[piddocktrumperiness]

Just that really. I can't quite find stats for this. If you've stumbled across something or know of this, do many young teen trans girls de transition? Do many older trans women detransition?

Are you saying women should be raped to appease mens' mental health?

"Galileo Galilei skirted nowhere near to being executed. The main problem was that he was enthusiastically promoting an then-unproven theory which went both against scripture and against the scientific knowledge of the time. The secondary problem was that in promoting that theory he was incredibly, offensively rude to the Pope."
OMG
"promoting an then-unproven theory which went both against scripture and against the scientific knowledge of the time"
care to explain "scientific knowledge of the time"???
I think you are getting very very very very very very confused between scientific knowledge and religious belief.
"The secondary problem was that in promoting that theory he was incredibly, offensively rude to the Pope." and ????? being offended is not a vaild reason to kill someone.
I could not ask for a worse argument to what I said than what you said, to the point if somone accused me of using your account as being a false flag sock puppet of mine it would be very difficult for me to prove otherwise.
You really need to look at what you wrote and think about it.
"Galileo Galilei skirted nowhere near to being executed"
His arse was well over the line, he was very close to being killed for upsetting the applecart.

That study isn't about the Tavistock. I think it's a bit alarmist to call a treatment model that has been in use for almost 30 years in some cases alarmist particularly when it involves a drug proscribed to tens of thousands of children with precocious puberty for decades. And off label use is very common in paediatric healthcare.

Apologies that should say "in 30 years in some cases experimental".

No don't be ridiculous, I'm saying equating rape with the language of mental health is ableist. The implication in the statement that in a sane world no-one would get raped implies that insane people - that is those with a mental health condition - are the ones committing rape.

I thinks it's easy to over interpret this study. It can be used to support more than one argument depending on your perspective. When it actually doesn't have sufficient detail for anything other than confirming that the majority of the children who started blockers go onto hormones. It is not a properly evidence based trial of the treatment of the children.

I would say using it to support an argument on rates of detransition could be called disingenuous at best.

I'm in favour of more research but this study is reassuring. I don't find the irreversible pathway argument persuasive. All blockers do it block puberty, they don't make a teenager who is biologically male want to grow breasts or a teenage girl who is biologically female want to grow a beard. And they don't contain some mystical essence that means when that starts happening once hormones are proscribed they are happy about those changes due to some lingering effects of the puberty blockers they were on. Puberty blockers are not associated with a desire to transition when used for precocious puberty. Occam's Razor suggests that the reason these kids have started on and stayed on hormones is that they are trans and the assessment protocols are working.

Kind of proves my point really.

I sincerely hope there is robust, evidence based research happening. Because that has not happened to date. Regardless of which side you come at this, people should be appalled by that.

I'll let Dr Hilary Cass know that a study quoted in her interim report about the Tavistock is 'alarmist', you know, that report that says the Tavistock is unsafe for children, that is being shut down.

Because a random TRA on mumsnet said so.

No, it implies that it would be a insane world to be an accepted outcome, particularly by bosses of prisons who know it is going to happen by letting rapists into female prisons. Putting rapists into female prisons is not the action of a person who is rational.

I know someone (more a friend of a friend) who used to be a therapist at the Tavistock. we had a few quite long conversations about his work quite a few years ago, at the time we were drinking together quite often. i knew less than nothing about all this at the time, e.g. equating both M2F and F2M transition with 'full' surgery, assuming that all patients inevitably went through it sooner rather than later, which we now of course know isn't true at all. so when I once had with him a conversation about regret/about detransitioning, we were at least partly talking at cross-purposes, with me assuming that treatment was probably rather less reversable than it really is. anyway, at the time my observation was that they knew or at least thought they knew that regret was relatively uncommon, but that they didn't really have a strong handle on just how uncommon - it just didn't really seem to fall within their remit, if that makes sense.

You are still using insanity as a pejorative, that is ableist and only contributes to the stigma towards mental health. In fact in relies on that stigma for it's rhetorical power.

I genuinely don't care about ableist language. Or pronouns. I care about women at risk of rape.

Surely there comes a point when a word has 2 meanings. "Insane" and "mad" have been used in this informal way by a great many people for a very long time. Trying to expunge these words from the dictionary and from everyday use is a pretty Big Brother thing to be doing.

Merriam-Webster’s number one definition of “Sane” is “proceeding from a sound mind: Rational.

Placing men in women’s prisons, in contravention of international human rights laws, is absolutely irrational.

The implication is that there is some kind of unusual psychological event occurring at a societal level that is increasing the access of predatory males to women, not a suggestion that those with mental health problems are more likely to be predatory. It’s only you that have suggested this is somehow about individuals.

Merriam-Webster’s number one definition of “Sane” is “proceeding from a sound mind: Rational.

Placing men in women’s prisons, in contravention of international human rights laws, is absolutely irrational.

So are you saying the people behind these policies have unsound minds? That they have some kind of cognitive problem that makes them do bad things because that's what people with cognitive problems do? It's a deeply ableist connotation despite it being very common language in gender critical circles - when will this madness end etc. And you may not care but a lot of disabled people do, especially those with a mental health condition who often find language like this stigmatising and offensive.

unusual psychological event occurring at a societal level

What does this even mean? We could all claim things we don't like in society are a result of an unusual psychological event happening at societal level. It's silly and lazy and stigmatising.

For those interested there's quite a good and short summary of the problems with this kind of language here: hbr.org/2020/12/why-you-need-to-stop-using-these-words-and-phrases

OOOOh look, a squirrel!

What exactly does policing one woman's use of an extremely common colloquialism have to do with the lack of solid research on trans desistance?

If only puberty blockers were "proscribed". I think we'd all be happy with that.

Not much but it came up so it got discussed.

People with disabilities are going to be upset because some say that putting rapists into female prisons is not rational?

Might I suggest that many people with disabilities totally agree this is an irrational thing to do and don't want rapists in female prisons, lest they get upset and to suggest they will get upset about this is itself totally irrational, mad and insane.

"It came up"

You brought it up. Glad you acknowledge it's got "not much"...actually nothing at all...to do with the subject.

Whatever ones beliefs about gender, the, lack of solid research on detransitioing is concerning and suggests trans people are not getting the best informed care.

Let's not distracted on stuff that's got "not much" relevance.

You brought it up. Glad you acknowledge it's got "not much"...actually nothing at all...to do with the subject.

Whatever ones beliefs about gender, the, lack of solid research on detransitioing is concerning and suggests trans people are not getting the best informed care.

I'm not going to apologise for pointing out ableist language. However back on point the research is happening and so far it is looking promising. This is how medicine works and don't forget these clinicians are seeing these kids every day and there are plenty of happy trans adults about now who had this treatment in their youth. Pretty much every major healthcare body endorses it and there is as yet no evidence of high rates of either detransition or regret. I strongly suspect any further research, plus the results of the Cass follow ups, will further support this treatment being used carefully and with a very small number of patients as it is now.

Placing men in women’s prisons, in contravention of international human rights laws, is absolutely irrational.

So are you saying the people behind these policies have unsound minds?

Well livyposts I don't know if they are of unsound minds but some were very dubious characters ,like Gordon Pike one of the advocates for the change in policy for Scottish Prisons. I believe he is still doing time for possession of hundreds of images of children being sexually abused.