National Autistic Society - yikes

[NotPurpleAnymore]

There's a lot of discussion about autistic people saying they identify as trans.

Here is an article currently being promoted on Twitter by the NAS twitter.com/Autism/status/1588508665308667905?t=RsbiDJqsNfDKGq9u0fCwig&s=19

To my mind, it seems to be celebrating top surgery and conflating this woman's late autism diagnosis with her decision that she is non binary.

Lots of talk about 'being seen'.

Does this make anyone else feel very uncomfortable? I think the unquestioning nature of the article makes it irresponsible.

I know right it's almost like they were looking for faults, clearly by this I was t supporting her to be her true self and find her hidden autistic talent.

Which further irritates me why does everyone have to have a talent why can't she just be? She doesn't have to be talented or gifted to be important to the ones that love her.

I wonder if some if it is a battle with themselves that they have autism (if they are autistic) and that can be really shitty (and by diagnostic criteria) affects their daily lives but if they admitted that having autism is shit they are admitting that a part of them is bad. Like they can't separate themselves from the autism or deep down feel shame about?

I can certainly relate to that I am on the path to an ADHD diagnosis (I'm certainly not self IDing) but have a specific form of dyslexia that is auditory processing I'm in the very bottom percentile for it and even though I know it's not my fault I was born this way I still sometimes get angry/embarrassed about it although I can avoid the things where it really shows up (I'm the world's worst receptionist or note taker at a complex meeting) and I have a high powered job and no one really knows unless they really know me. However I don't think autism is as easy to hide or compensate for.

Yes definitely this plus the massive rise in autistic girls adopting trans identities could he because they will often mirror other people and peers because they are more innately driven to be social so could be social contagion as well whereas autistic boys don't do mirroring as much.

Plus girls and women do have more complex social interaction (not a sexism thing this is a primate thing we are evolved to behave this way) so I can understand it being easier for autistic girls to find male interaction easier and then think I must be trans because I get on better with men much as Schlaar posted.

Academia is totally biased now, I know as I did a course at the London school of hygiene and tropical medicine recently. The social sciences have become more prominent in public health research and the stuff that some of the highly political lecturers sprout is so blinkered and ideological. Forget about hard facts and evidence. It's all about anthropology, qualitative studies, identity and campaigning. One lecturer was pro FGM as she had done research in anthropological Sudan, she also said modern slavery is not a problem and that right wing propaganda exaggerates this idea that there is modern slavery. One male lecturer, pretty senior, said that prostitutes aka sex workers are more vulnerable and deserving than children in public health. Academia, especially is ultra woke now.

But 20 years ago “I get on better with men” did not correspond to “therefore I must be a man”. You were more likely to be told you were a butch lesbian. Both inaccurate assumptions but the latter doesn’t involve medicalisation.

The key point for me is that as a “butch” female I was still largely excluded from the male social groups I wanted to join (and this continues to be the case). Whereas as a trans man I would be permitted to access those groups.

Getting on better with men does not mean you are a butch lesbian. That is quite a jump. Unless this was posted on the wrong thread so I am missing the context?

I’m just saying 20 years ago when I was a teenager, a girl who wasn’t making herself pretty for boys and who wanted to wear male clothes and do stereotypically masculine things and hang out with men, would have been bullied for being a “lesbian”. Nowadays she’s more likely to be told she’s trans.

The parent groups I'm in are all pro trans, Ive left a couple because I'm so annoyed at getting called transphobic because of linking Transgender Trend in reply to parents questioning the trans status of their child.

The NAS is captured and now Mermaids are giving webinars for charities like Sunshine Support who are for SEND children.

From other groups and what I've read it is okay to say you suspect you might be autistic but self diagnosis is frowned upon and rightly so. Tik Took is full of young kids claiming to Gabe all sorts of disorders basing their behaviour on sterotypes, I find it quite troublesome.

Autigender is thrown around by a well know social media person.

Frankly the cause and effect relationships that some of the parents online claim for their autistics kids is concerning. I kept try to say it's not cause and effect but would get called transphobic and abelist.

Autistic girls are vulnerable without being groomed into gender identity nonsense.

Link to the thread on Sunshine Support and Mermaids webinar.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4595808-charities-targeting-send-children-with-gender-identity?page=1

This is really shocking! That a national charity would act in that way.

@FemaleAndLearning there has been a weird repression of transgender and autism. I don’t know of any charity that has taken up, commented on or even discussed the CASS report with such high numbers of autistic kids transitioning. I feel deeply concerned about this.

Being trans makes you interesting. People rush to accept you to prove how accepting they are. So if you’re someone who’s constantly rejected and ignored, then you say you’re trans and suddenly people want to defend and support you and befriend you, that is incredibly seductive. I thought this was interesting and insightful, thank you.

Yes this is so important and not just for autistic people, though of course it will especially appeal to some people who struggle to fit in and get left out of things. Transgenderism hides behind the lie that trans people are the most oppressed and persecuted, but in reality in a lot of schools and organisations they’re the most feted, praised and pandered to - because everyone wants to show how cool and accepting they are and no one wants to be witch-hunted for “transphobia” if they dare to wonder why a vulnerable person, especially a young person, might be going down that route. It’s a huge social contagion effect when young people can see that simply deciding you’re trans transforms you into the most wonderful, brave person ever and the centre of attention.

This is also why I now disclose my autism whenever possible. Previously I used to avoid mentioning it for fear of discrimination. Now I mention it whenever possible because people are falling over themselves to prove how woke they are by accepting someone with a disability. I get treated much better when people find out I have autism - it used to be the opposite.

That's interesting @Schlaar.

@FemaleAndLearning - I got my post deleted on the Sunshine Support Facebook page when they were pushing mermaids. Incidentally, Sunshine Support isn't a charity.

@FemaleAndLearning , I found the sunshine support webinar very worrying, especially the fact that they were removing gc comments, and claiming puberty blockers are reversible.

The latter bit is a real problem.

I had an argument with my young adult son at the weekend in which he claimed that puberty blockers are completely reversible and totally minor. You just stop taking them and everything goes back to how it was. Maybe you’ll be a bit shorter than you would have, but that’s nothing. And that he’d ‘read the research’ unlike me.

I ended up getting really annoyed and asking him exactly what made him think he (as someone who didn’t manage to pass any Alevels) was able to read and understand biomedical research at all, never mind better than me (as someone with a PhD and a research career, who used to teach in health and life sciences).

He’s dyslexic and autistic (neither of which I mentioned) which further impedes his ability to actually have a genuine grasp of the issues. He struggles with life generally (but will not listen to me at all or do sensible things that would help him) and hasn’t managed to hold down any kind of job. So he spends far too much time online and is drawn to the kinds of young people who believe and perpetuate these myths. He isn’t gender questioning, but I’m certain some of his vulnerable and troubled friends are. But they’re all convinced they know far better than everyone else.

Organisations need to stop acting so irresponsibly in promoting information in relation to what are extremely powerful prescription only medications with profound, ongoing effects. It’s scandalous.

I'd be careful about that. It may be true now, but some people may realize that is what is going on and it will have the opposite effect.

Trans is being associated with autism in many places now. I attended a conference about autism in England and 3 of the speakers were talking solely about trans gender - all unquestioning positivity about this, zero mention of the CASS report, zero debate. All were trans adults. It was not an autism and trans conference and there were not other issues well represented in this way, e.g. absolutely nothing on language (such as non verbal).

I lost a friend to this nonsense.

She recently got a diagnosis in her early 30s and suddenly started talking about how she fitted in for the first time and was accepted for the first time for who she is.

I said to her that there was more too her than an autism identity and it scared me that she was sounding brainwashed and everything was now about autism and being a member of this group not about her as an individual. I said I was extremely worried about her.

She eventually sent me shitty messages and blocked me on social media and on my phone after I raised questions over sex v gender and was worried about harms to children (pre all the latest Mermaids stuff). She said she could no longer worry about me being triggered (!) and having to monitor what she said whilst worrying about what her trans friends thought.

A friendship of over 18 years trashed. I was honest with her because I genuinely care and couldn't just stay silent. I know how online communities can often work in terms of intensity and then have a phrase of high drama and then massive crash and burn. I've done them for over 20 years and am much more wise to it these days. Indeed we met through such a community. I think the one she's in is particularly toxic because she's hitched her entire self to it. It won't end well.

The online autistic groups utterly terrify me.

Redtoothbrush , I am in a few online parent support groups , I always worry when some of the “ autistic led “ support groups are recommended to parents as many of them are completely toxic.The “ autistic girls network “ fb page is also full of language like “ presents as female”.

The Scottish Women’s Autism Network allows you to self ID both as autistic and as a woman.....

Yes - very much agree.
On the occasions that a parent asks for advice in certain autism/mental health FB support groups after a child suddenly announces their trans identity, many other parents rush in to congratulate them on having a trans child living their authentic life, tell them the importance of embracing the child's new identity/using their new pronouns etc etc.
Sometimes, if I sense any unease in the original parent's post, I will privately message to recommend that they read widely, look at other websites etc etc. I have had some very grateful replies in response from people who instinctively know it doesn't make sense but are aware they will be deemed a bad person if they query what has happened to their child.
I have seen other people raise questions (politely) on the main threads in some of these FB support groups and get chucked out of the group after people shout them down.

There is a very worrying trend towards saying that the experts are ONLY autistic / transgender adults on social media over autistic children’s wellbeing. These are basically strangers, adults who have often self IDd autistic, with no vetting, we know nothing of their background, their qualifications, and yet they are setting up ‘Actually Autistic’ or Autistic Led groups and telling parents that they must go and ask them anything about their child. Parents are being berated ‘have you asked an actually autistic person’.

I was even advised by my child’s special school teacher to consult a local ‘actually autistic’ group about my DS, knowing nothing about it (and it was a well meaning group but no one was vetted for children, no health and safety, and frankly little knowledge of anything that DS needed). In what other context would a teacher send a vulnerable child and it’s parent to get advice from a random group of adults? Especially if they are in essence pushing an ideology.

This is a real issue, full of red flags for safeguarding and also saying that anyone IDing as trans or autistic advice should take precedence over professional advice from credible, accountable bodies such as doctors.

Fuck me, what professionalism.

Totally agree with this. I’ve seen groups even suggest autistic individuals with mental illness should be referred to them instead of the local mental health services. The local mental health services declined to do this but does refer to this group pretty much anyone they think might be autistic or identifies the self to be, The group do not have a relevant qualification between them, were all diagnosed or self diagnosed in the last five years. They proclaim themselves to be experts and provide training to various organisations.

On the other hand I do know a couple of informal autistic friendship groups who do manage to offer shared support. They are run by individuals who were diagnosed as children and seem to have rather more insight into the limits of their knowledge (though not perfect). But they don’t engage with parents or children as they just aren’t interest and that is probably their saving grace (for the moment) - they don’t proselytise.