National Autistic Society - yikes

[NotPurpleAnymore]

There's a lot of discussion about autistic people saying they identify as trans.

Here is an article currently being promoted on Twitter by the NAS twitter.com/Autism/status/1588508665308667905?t=RsbiDJqsNfDKGq9u0fCwig&s=19

To my mind, it seems to be celebrating top surgery and conflating this woman's late autism diagnosis with her decision that she is non binary.

Lots of talk about 'being seen'.

Does this make anyone else feel very uncomfortable? I think the unquestioning nature of the article makes it irresponsible.

Unfortunately it's another example of the "puberty blockers are perfectly safe and fully reversible" phenomenon. Whilst more and more people know about this link the professional "support" group's are all captured. The online community has been overwhelmed by people who self id as autistic (hint most would never get a diagnosis) who will shout down anyone (especially those of us with a formal diagnosis) who points out the harm or even that all the talk of asd as a superpower ignores all except the tiny minority who have what would be known as asburgers (sp) before the asd self id crowd insisted on doing away with all subdivisions in the autism diagnosis.
Autism has been a training ground for the promotion of self id and forced teaming of 2 completely disparate group's to the detriment of the people who had previously been known as autistic.
Sorry for the rant but am very angry with this and the twits who claim that my struggles and my profoundly autistic sons struggles are not caused by our autism but by our "victim hood mind sets" 🤬

Aspects of autism would account for the need to control how people around them think, the uncompromising need to be affirmed as their chosen sex. That control thing and trying to make everyone believe exactly what you believe is very familiar to me

Is it? My experience is that it’s about controlling surroundings and schedules. Not what people think.

There is a lot of pressure on young adults on the spectrum to be accepting of this ideology. Because they struggle to be understood, I think they try harder to accept others and don’t want to question others because it happens a lot to them. Finding a ‘community’ that never judges your behaviour is so refreshing and they return the non-judgement even if they don’t always agree with the ideology. My DD’s friends on the spectrum she says most have identified as non binary, although she is strongly and openly gender critical and none of them mind what she says and don’t often really disagree… so she suspects some are just saying they are because it’s easier and they get more acceptance. These are private school girls. She’s now around people of a different class where non binary trans etc isn’t even a topic.

Is it? My experience is that it’s about controlling surroundings and schedules. Not what people think.

People vary, but yes. I've seen a child with an ASC melt down because a playground with 250 kids in it wont all play his game..... If you are steeped in this ideology and what you "are" matters to you then everyone must agree with what you "are". And it's very frightening if they don't.

This is a comment under the same story on Instagram. (Note it is not a statement by the Society themselves and I’ve cropped it because this is the relevant bit I want to highlight. It’s on their Instagram grid, under the photo of Lex if anyone wishes to read the full thing. There’s not many comments so it’s easy to find. You have to click on the other replies)

I have a daughter. I don’t want her told this. No child should be brought up this way.

I've seen a child with an ASC melt down because a playground with 250 kids in it wont all play his game

You could also view that as them controlling their game/surroundings. I’m not sure I’ve seen controlling people as an autistic trait. Also, lots of children will melt down when everyone doesn’t do what they want. Control is a common issue within humans. You have to be careful with describing the control aspect of autism because descriptions around controlling people can verge into disorders of the mind like psychopathy, or even just narcissism.

Anyone remember this? It seemed at the time like NAS didn't really understand the trans thing, or Mermaids and when people pointed out how (to use the lingo of the day) problematic Mermaids is, they pulled links to them from the website. This was end of 2018.

I don't have time to re-read that whole thread but if memory serves, they reversed on that reversal pretty quickly and I would hazard a guess that TRA complaints at that time would have preceeded some sort of re-education and the current ideological capture.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3384565-National-Autistic-Society-and-Mermaids-Title-edited-by-MNHQ

All the little things autistic kids are told are ‘odd’ and make them stick out, they’re now told is because they’re in the wrong body. I can absolutely see how these young vulnerable kids get drawn into this.

There is a lot of pressure on young adults on the spectrum to be accepting of this ideology. Because they struggle to be understood, I think they try harder to accept others and don’t want to question others because it happens a lot to them. Finding a ‘community’ that never judges your behaviour is so refreshing and they return the non-judgement even if they don’t always agree with the ideology. My DD’s friends on the spectrum she says most have identified as non binary, although she is strongly and openly gender critical and none of them mind what she says and don’t often really disagree… so she suspects some are just saying they are because it’s easier and they get more acceptance.

so which is it? a lot of pressure and easier and they get more acceptance or never judges? It is one or the other, it can’t be both.

I’m not sure I’ve seen controlling people as an autistic trait.

Bit of a side issue but yes it's widely recognised (even from babyhood). Asserting control is the third extreme social response, along with passivity or withdrawal. We all have a social environment as well as a physical environment, and why would you expect people with autism not to need to control that too?

You have to be careful with describing the control aspect of autism because descriptions around controlling people can verge into disorders of the mind like psychopathy, or even just narcissism.

That's for diagnosticians to worry about. In every day life you will see some people with ASCs being controlling of other people's speech and behaviour and even beliefs for reasons pretty much associated with their autism.

I would be very careful about assuming that a youngster with autism doesn't have issues around social control. Girls especially tend to turn those issues back on themselves.

@JacquelinePot Oh well I'd better not expect too much from the letters I recently wrote to their trustees

so which is it? a lot of pressure and easier and they get more acceptance or never judges? It is one or the other, it can’t be both.

The pressure is to accept people who are different, as they need the same. That’s peer group plus own internal pressure. The lack of judgement from the community about their autism and associated behaviours, creates its own pressure to be accepting of even the ridiculous notion you can be born in the wrong body. It can be both the way I’ve described it actually.

That's for diagnosticians to worry about. In every day life you will see some people with ASCs being controlling of other people's speech and behaviour and even beliefs for reasons pretty much associated with their autism.

No I think we can all worry about how we describe autism actually, because getting it wrong can be harmful. In my experience controlling peoples beliefs is not an autistic trait. It’s a human one that may happen in someone with autism. Their desire for control isn’t rooted in controlling people. It’s rooted in sensory needs most of the time. It can happen with people who have anxiety in a similar way. Nobody should assume too much, no. That’s my point. I’ve read a fair bit on autism, been present at two assessment procedures for the two in my family and controlling people isn’t something I recognise as an autistic trait.

Yes the controlling of others is definitely a thing or certainly is with our DD's autism we have to watch her like a hawk with her younger brother as she gets very controlling of him.

I have seen the same narrative of autism is a super power and anyone who said different is a bigot. As a parent I only go near one support group now that's a local one set up by and for parents and we only discussed last week how toxic most groups have become particularly for parents.

It's not just the "lower" functioning autistic girls they don't care about but the "higher" functioning ones that are struggling, DD really plummeted academically during lockdown but also straight after went onto to secondary and for a while or was a nightmare of her having meltdowns and self harming tics plus the school not really caring that she couldn't add or subtract even low denomination numbers.
I had a real low point with DD were she was really struggling and I was at my wits ends with the system posted on a forum and my goodness luckily I'm resilient but I was told I wasn't allowed to say:

1. My daughter as she's not a possession.
2. I shouldn't advocate for her as I was repressing her (an 11 year old child who often goes non verbal).
3. That I was wrong that autism often isn't a super power and even if it does give someone abilities in one area they are profoundly lacking in other areas as that is the nature of an autism diagnosis.
4. That autism makes her vulnerable to physical and sexual abuse.

I was told that I should never have had children, that I should have aborted her, that social services need to be involved in my family, that she would be better off adopted.

What I noticed is the relentless pursuit of me it really seemed that they hated any parent.

Yes the controlling of others is definitely a thing or certainly is with our DD's autism

The desire for control isn’t centred on controlling others, but the situation usually because of sensory overloads. If your DD is controlling her brother it’s likely coming from that. It’s important to understand what they’re trying to control and why.

@Sickoffamilydrama I'm so sorry that you went through that too💐
I agree that they hate parents and deliberately try to drive a wedge between parents and their asd children. The main way they do this is by claiming that nt parents can't understand their children which falls down with parents like myself who also have asd, this then causes them to target us even more because "we don't want our kids to do better than us"😒

Hardest thing with Autism is that there's no one "archetype." Because autistic people are people. All people are different.

Also, a significant issue for all autistic people is anxiety.

anxiety in anyone can be exerted in numerable ways. It can become anorexia. (Many with anorexia are diagnosed with autism later in life.) it can be ODC. It can be agrophobia. It can be "high functioning" - extreme distress occurs in private. It can be angry, reactive. Some anxiety comes from not feeling you've any control over your life. How we look is one way to gain some control or peace.

Large cross overs between pda and autism, I'm not up to date with it but I think it's seen as autism now. Behaviours can be interpreted as controlling. Pda is mainly extreme anxiety.

Yes, the sensory difficulties lead to extreme anxiety.

Thanks for her it's multiple reasons one is that she believes he should be behaving or doing X.

But yes it's worse when she has been overloaded during the day.

Large cross overs between pda and autism, I'm not up to date with it but I think it's seen as autism now. Behaviours can be interpreted as controlling. Pda is mainly extreme anxiety.
Yes, there is a bit of conflict and difference of opinion among experts but some believe it’s a subset of autism but not that common within autism anyway. Just recently started to read about it myself as it wasn’t something I heard about with my DD’s diagnosis. Maybe that clinic didn’t believe in it? I have anxiety so I see a lot of similar responses in me and those with autism or PDA. I did just read yesterday some prefer a different term for this, god I can’t remember what it was… as the pathological part I guess can seem too harsh.

But yes it's worse when she has been overloaded during the day.

Yup, even now my DD is an adult I can tell the day she has had by how she eats, if she can at all. It still distresses me, and her too.

It’s rooted in sensory needs most of the time.

Sensory is a smaller component for most of the people with ASCs that I know. For them it's social, communication and (for want of a better word) rigid-thinking with just a sprinkle of sensory issues. I can remember when sensory issues weren't even in the diagnostic criteria (are they now? I may be out of date) but were seen as a common co-morbidity.

Your experience and your reading are different from mine. OK, you focus on what's most relevant to you and your family and the people you know. I'm sure you are not alone in your experiences and your interpretations. But neither am I.

Autism is different in every person but there are indeed established diagnostic criteria, and that’s what I’m basing some of my comments on because I think it matters if traits themselves are described in ways that aren’t entirely accurate. Sensory sensitivity is unbelievably common in general and yes part of assessments. I will push back on certain language we now know is harmful, especially around the misunderstandings about motivations for control and this ‘lack of empathy’ bullshit so often repeated.

I’m on the waiting list to be assessed for autism ,I filled in lots of questions to get this far ,and my doctor suggested I go for diagnosis.
but I’m not at all controlling with other people, I don’t like change ,and I won’t be controlled,I will do the opposite if I’m told to do something..but I’m definitely not controlling with others ..
maybe I’ve not got it after all ,

‘Superpower’ gets to me. I’ve seen it applied to other disabling conditions too like dyslexia. It isn’t a superpower; there are no supernatural abilities involved. They may be ‘good’ at some things but rarely are those skills at a level exceptional in the general population. I wonder what other children think when a child says ‘autism is my superpower’ and yet the things they do well are no better than other children they know. I expect disappointed which doesn’t make for the best basis on which to build social links.

Yes ,if I get a diagnosis,I would say autism has ruined my life ,but as I’ve not got a diagnosis I can’t say that yet ..don’t believe in that self Id bollocks .
no superpowers here ,no in my children who have diagnosis