Page 18 | Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.

Datun · 30/10/2022 13:25

See @Thehawki , this is what I'm talking about. Albeit, at the superficial end of gender stereotyping.

Wearing styles more typically associated with women, changing her name, asking people to use she/her, wearing a wig, wearing make up. Never heels as she doesn't like them. And not really dresses as she prefers trousers

Are the attributes of a woman meant to be wig wearing? Certain clothing styles? Make up? How come 250 odd years ago it was men who wore the make up, and the heels. And the wigs too.

Is the definition of a woman a man who demands to be called she and her? Or is a woman not an adult human female, but an adult human who wears make up? and if they don't wear make-up, what the bloody hell are they?

It's nonsense, and just very old-fashioned.

We had a transwoman on here once who said the reason he thought he was a woman was because he wanted to be 'vibrant'. Way to tell every vibrant boy, that they're not really a boy. You're not masculine enough son, if you want to be vibrant, you must be a girl.

Another one said they wanted to be like all the mean girls in Hollywood movies. And be described as a 'hot mess'.

Funny how they never want to be the one doing the bulk of the childcare, picking up the socks, cleaning the toilets, or taking a cut in pay, though.

MrSand · 30/10/2022 13:25

The person in the video is not remotely GC. She says "figure out your identity, and then we'll accept it", which is diametrically opposed to the GC position.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:27

Datun · 30/10/2022 13:04

Haha!! It's not a 'problem'. That's one person, if it's even authentic.

But it's hilarious that you expect me to believe that the behaviour of one, possibly three women makes you not want to reject damaging gender stereotyping responsible for holding back girls and women for millennia.

Honestly, if I had a penny for every time someone said eg Posie made them not want to be a feminist or women protesting made a person reject gender criticism.

Go ahead and accept gender instead of criticising it. You won't be alone.

Show quote history

@Datun
makes you not want to reject damaging gender stereotyping responsible for holding back girls and women for millennia.

Oh no, I do reject gender stereotypes. I just refuse to align myself with the GC movement because of several ethically suspect extremists currently not only being tolerated but celebrated as leaders & role models.

Rather like believing in equality of the sexes and fighting for that, but not being able to call yourself a feminist due to similar issues with the fine upstanding but ethically challenged pillars of feminist society.

VestofAbsurdity · 30/10/2022 13:27

I recall a separate survey that asked if transwomen had not gone through full SRS should they be using women's bathrooms and the answer was a resounding NO.

Until recently most people assumed quite incorrectly that a transwomen was someone who had undergone full surgery, people are now realising this is not and never has been the case and with the realisation of that and the exposing of what acceptance without exception and anyone is who they say they are mantras actually mean in real, everyday life people - men and women - are saying NO to any and all men in women's toilets and other single sex segregated spaces and services.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:28

MrSand · 30/10/2022 13:25

The person in the video is not remotely GC. She says "figure out your identity, and then we'll accept it", which is diametrically opposed to the GC position.

She also says “it’s a boy and I’m not putting up with this”

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:34

Clymene · 30/10/2022 12:56

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Which is a decrease from the previous year when 72% of women said they were okay with it, demonstrating that more women are becoming aware that men who transition represent no lesser risk than any other man and that most of them still have their male genitalia.

Incidentally, why are you using US terminology? We say public toilet, not bathroom.

Yes it was a decrease. But the reason I brought it up was because @Helleofabore was peddling the “only men decided other males could access female spaces, no women were consulted” narrative. Which is bullshit.

Women were part of the decision, women have been consulted and the majority of women have agreed to date.

Now it’s quite possible the 66% could decrease further and it only be a minority of women agree in the future. Or even today as 66% is from 2020…who knows about 2022?

But the idea that no woman had anything to do with this and no women have ever agreed to this is a fantasy.

Pixiedust1234 · 30/10/2022 13:42

Women were part of the decision, women have been consulted and the majority of women have agreed to date.

They agreed to a man whose bits were surgically removed and taking female hormones . The questions were deliberately vague.

Go out and do a new survey. Do you agree to have a biological intact male next to you while you were half undressed and alone? I'm pretty sure the percentage would change drastically.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:43

@TheClogLady
For this survey we used a definition of transgender people that was developed in past research (Balarajan et al, 2011):
[people who] have gone through all or part of a process (including thoughts or actions) to change the sex they were described as at birth to the gender they identify with, or intend to. This might include by changing their name, wearing different clothes, taking hormones or having gender reassignment surgery”

ok, so men who either had their knobs chopped off or who men who the women asked assumed were aiming to have their knobs chopped off at some point in the future?
No. Definition of transpeople the surveyors used when asking their questions are people who have gone through all or part of a process.
The parts of the process were listed as

```
  changing name
```
```
  wearing different clothes
```

taking hormones, or*

```
  having surgery
```

So it would be transwomen who meet any one of the parts above regardless of intent to do any other parts. That’s the literal reading of it, but given that you’ve misunderstood the definition as indicating either have had their penis surgically removed or intend to, then it’s quite possible other survey respondents misunderstood the definition as well.

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:46

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:43

@TheClogLady
For this survey we used a definition of transgender people that was developed in past research (Balarajan et al, 2011):
[people who] have gone through all or part of a process (including thoughts or actions) to change the sex they were described as at birth to the gender they identify with, or intend to. This might include by changing their name, wearing different clothes, taking hormones or having gender reassignment surgery”

ok, so men who either had their knobs chopped off or who men who the women asked assumed were aiming to have their knobs chopped off at some point in the future?
No. Definition of transpeople the surveyors used when asking their questions are people who have gone through all or part of a process.
The parts of the process were listed as

```
  changing name
```
```
  wearing different clothes
```

taking hormones, or*

```
  having surgery
```

So it would be transwomen who meet any one of the parts above regardless of intent to do any other parts. That’s the literal reading of it, but given that you’ve misunderstood the definition as indicating either have had their penis surgically removed or intend to, then it’s quite possible other survey respondents misunderstood the definition as well.

Still, most people will naturally err towards transsexuals, no one thinks a man who changed his name belongs in the ladies! That’s pure daft!

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:46

Pixiedust1234 · 30/10/2022 13:42

Women were part of the decision, women have been consulted and the majority of women have agreed to date.

They agreed to a man whose bits were surgically removed and taking female hormones . The questions were deliberately vague.

Go out and do a new survey. Do you agree to have a biological intact male next to you while you were half undressed and alone? I'm pretty sure the percentage would change drastically.

No they didn’t. This is the definition they gave the women answering the question:
Transgender
“[people who] have gone through all or part of a process (including thoughts or actions) to change the sex they were described as at birth to the gender they identify with, or intend to. This might include by changing their name, wearing different clothes, taking hormones or having gender reassignment surgery”

Thats not vague at all. It’s clear they’re referring to a person that has done any one of the things on the list- change name, or wear different clothes, or take hormones, or have had surgery.

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 30/10/2022 13:47

The aggressor in that video is absolutely horrible - it is beyond nasty to treat another woman like that. I am a cis woman and very obviously female and I have had a very unpleasant interaction with a woman calling me a man in the ladies loo. These bullying GC feminists should stop and think before they attack people.

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:48

@Discovereads dunno what you’ve done to the formatting but your post is mental on my phone.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:50

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:46

Still, most people will naturally err towards transsexuals, no one thinks a man who changed his name belongs in the ladies! That’s pure daft!

Show quote history

Sorry about the wierd black bars, no idea why that happened.

Well they could have as the definition clearly includes this under the definition. I guess it depends on how many women you want to claim struggle with reading comprehension and so might have answered the question while labouring under a misunderstanding of the definition?

ScrollingLeaves · 30/10/2022 13:51

Having heard the clip it seems this took place in the U S.

The woman accusing the other woman sounded rather demented, or possibly drunk, and I don’t think she behaved appropriately even if she had been correct in her assumption. She could have left and spoken to the management, or just left..

I am not sure why she has been called GC in the OP though. There must be many woman who would be very concerned if they thought a man was in the ladies’ but who have no idea about what GC even means let alone share GC views.

Also there is no such thing as a Cis woman, but if the harassed woman was ‘cis’ so by the way was the other woman.According to this language the heading should say ‘ One cis woman harassed by another cis woman because she thought she looked like a boy.’

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:52

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:48

@Discovereads dunno what you’ve done to the formatting but your post is mental on my phone.

I don’t know either. The post button froze, so I quickly cut and paste to notes to save what I’d typed, refreshed the page, pasted it back in and the post button worked that time. I’m sorry for the black bare but no idea why it did that.

Asdavaluesausage · 30/10/2022 13:52

@Discovereads some women in America are anti abortion and lobbied for all abortions to be banned. Should women there just give up fighting for their abortion rights?

why are you so invested in persuading women to allow males into female spaces? Why do you want to make all spaces mixed sex?

if it’s just about being wanting to pee, why can’t TW just pee in male facilities. If they’re just going to go in, pee, wash their hands and leave they can do that perfectly well in a male toilet.

Asdavaluesausage · 30/10/2022 13:53

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 30/10/2022 13:47

The aggressor in that video is absolutely horrible - it is beyond nasty to treat another woman like that. I am a cis woman and very obviously female and I have had a very unpleasant interaction with a woman calling me a man in the ladies loo. These bullying GC feminists should stop and think before they attack people.

Awww. So you’re a trans identifying female? So do you use the female or male facilities?

334bu · 30/10/2022 13:58

"Oh no, I do reject gender stereotypes. I just refuse to align myself with the GC movement because of several ethically suspect extremists currently not only being tolerated but celebrated as leaders & role models."

Really? Are we going down this route again?
Should we start naming all the very dubious people promoting gender ideology? As you adhere to gender ideology beliefs does that make you like them?

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:59

@Asdavaluesausage
some women in America are anti abortion and lobbied for all abortions to be banned. Should women there just give up fighting for their abortion rights?
No, of course women should keep fighting for their rights, but they should not lie and say that abortion bans are being lobbied for and voted into law by only men.

why are you so invested in persuading women to allow males into female spaces?. I’m not. I’m invested in preventing people from harassing other people in public, full stop. That this toilet issue is no excuse for what happened in the video. And frankly the reason it happened is due to extremist GC activists inciting and exhorting their followers to engage in this sort of confrontational behaviour and harassment.

Why do you want to make all spaces mixed sex? I don’t. I want third spaces.

if it’s just about being wanting to pee, why can’t TW just pee in male facilities. If they’re just going to go in, pee, wash their hands and leave they can do that perfectly well in a male toilet. Because it’s even more dangerous for them in the male facilities.

Hepwo · 30/10/2022 14:00

Polling people is not the same as consulting people.

There was no public consultation when the 2004 GRA was introduced.

The recent consultation generated a more nuanced response which, when analysed properly, was not in favour of self determined gender recognition. This really has called into question the secretive 2004 GRA as it is just as negative in terms of outcomes for single sex services than the proposed reforms.

Agreeing men can be legally women has led to this conflict that's not going away no matter how much polling anyone does.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 14:01

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 30/10/2022 13:47

The aggressor in that video is absolutely horrible - it is beyond nasty to treat another woman like that. I am a cis woman and very obviously female and I have had a very unpleasant interaction with a woman calling me a man in the ladies loo. These bullying GC feminists should stop and think before they attack people.

Yep. You are not alone. There have been a few threads on here of women saying this has happened to them. I’m so sorry you went through this. 💐

Asdavaluesausage · 30/10/2022 14:01

But why is it dangerous for TW in male facilities? If TM can use male facilities with no problems so can TW. And TW feeling unsafe in male facilities is not womens problem to solve is it? That is for males to work out between themselves. We are not human shields.

334bu · 30/10/2022 14:02

"Because it’s even more dangerous for them in the male facilities."

So they are in danger in the women's toilets too? Aye right

Pixiedust1234 · 30/10/2022 14:02

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 30/10/2022 13:47

The aggressor in that video is absolutely horrible - it is beyond nasty to treat another woman like that. I am a cis woman and very obviously female and I have had a very unpleasant interaction with a woman calling me a man in the ladies loo. These bullying GC feminists should stop and think before they attack people.

What would you say if you found out the video is only identifying as something real? There are many discrepancies which make it come across as either deliberately fake or coursework for a phse lesson/media studies.