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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.

624 replies

MargaritaPie · 29/10/2022 23:16

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1586295024672808961

Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
JennyNotFromTheBlock · 30/10/2022 11:17

Ladybrrrd · 30/10/2022 11:12

I’m waiting to know that @VinoDino too. Should we add it to our list? Did we ever get the examples or did that poster suddenly have something better to do/lost signal/ran away?

Wearing styles more typically associated with women, changing her name, asking people to use she/her, wearing a wig, wearing make up. Never heels as she doesn't like them. And not really dresses as she prefers trousers.
Theres the list. Feel free to pick apart

So based on sexist, misogynist stereotypes. Which is all gender identity ideology is. I do wonder how any woman could be so brainwashed and so blind to support such misogynistic attitudes. The cognitive dissonance that involves, to centre mens feelings over womens basic human rights, just based on outdated misogynistic stereotypes of how women dress and present. I mean, it's 2022, how do modern women justify this 1940s misogyny.

IcakethereforeIam · 30/10/2022 11:18

@Discovereads isn't a tra, argumentative and tenacious (not a criticism btw), and, maybe, only a leetle bit gc.

Hepwo · 30/10/2022 11:19

Ladybrrrd · 30/10/2022 11:15

Why does it surprise you? Why would women not be polite to other females using the womens facilities, even if they were presenting in a gender non conforming way.

Because I'm talking about and posting pictures of trans men who really really look like men!

They don't.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 30/10/2022 11:22

Ladybrrrd · 30/10/2022 11:07

*Do you know any transmen in real life?

Loads of us have female kids who identify as transmen. They aren’t scary.*

I know 3.
I know how the conversation would go with at least 1.

"Excuse me are you meant to be here?"
"Yes, fuck off."

It just really amazes me how apparently women who would call the police/get super uncomfortable/shout at a transwoman (or indeed natal man) in the bathroom, would suddnely become #bekind and polite if they were to see a trans man using the correctly sexed bathroom.

Because trans men are women so if thruster in the females they'd be using the correct bathroom, no matter how they present.

ReunitedThorns · 30/10/2022 11:32

Ladybrrrd · 30/10/2022 11:07

*Do you know any transmen in real life?

Loads of us have female kids who identify as transmen. They aren’t scary.*

I know 3.
I know how the conversation would go with at least 1.

"Excuse me are you meant to be here?"
"Yes, fuck off."

It just really amazes me how apparently women who would call the police/get super uncomfortable/shout at a transwoman (or indeed natal man) in the bathroom, would suddnely become #bekind and polite if they were to see a trans man using the correctly sexed bathroom.

I would argue that the whole female children who identify as trans men is the whole ROGD and social contagion issue. They are not trans, and are incredibly likely to suffer from transition regret.

Before trans became trendy, clinics saw at most 5% girls wanting to be boys, 95% were boys wanting to be girls, and 75% of those boys were AGP.

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 11:33

Ladybrrrd · 30/10/2022 11:07

*Do you know any transmen in real life?

Loads of us have female kids who identify as transmen. They aren’t scary.*

I know 3.
I know how the conversation would go with at least 1.

"Excuse me are you meant to be here?"
"Yes, fuck off."

It just really amazes me how apparently women who would call the police/get super uncomfortable/shout at a transwoman (or indeed natal man) in the bathroom, would suddnely become #bekind and polite if they were to see a trans man using the correctly sexed bathroom.

So your 3 transmen friends DO use the ladies loo? And believe themselves to belong there?

Because you were arguing the opposite 5 minutes ago.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2022 11:56

I see we are again using ‘Whatabout these females’ to leverage males into female single sex spaces.

Please. Just fucking stop.

We have had enough posts on these boards from transitioned females as well as over social media to know that there are many of these females who would seek alternative solutions rather than distress other women.

Listen to them.

They have empathy for females who have a wide range of reasons to want single sex spaces. And they have said they will choose not to cause distress because they took the steps to take testosterone which has far greater effects on giving females physical cues that are associated with males. Such as facial hair. Such as fat distribution and musculature.

To use them as some sick ‘gotcha’ is showing ignorance to the nuance of the argument. Which I see other posters nailed.

If females could have 100% confidence that only females used the toilets, there would be less issues.

Males using the toilets have caused this. No one else.

Females were not consulted before males were told by other well meaning males that they should and could use the female single sex spaces. And it is deluded to try to argue that the majority of females agree that they should use those spaces. There is poll after poll stating the exact opposite.

And if a male thinks by adopting the stereotypes we seek to destroy is ‘living as a women’, then whoever encourages that thinking is complicit in upholding those stereotypes.

Any male who thinks they are living as a women needs to understand at a deep level how offensive that it. And that all they are doing is living ‘their’ interpretation of what a ‘woman’ is. Nothing more. Because they are not women and can never be.

This is also something that many transitioned females will report. That they transitioned and have since discovered and are perfectly honest that they will never be ‘men’ they will never pass enough to other men despite the testosterone.

Males who transition have been infantilised to be let believe they pass and they have the socialised entitlement to believe it all.

Datun · 30/10/2022 12:00

There are LOTS of examples of women who are not transgender being harassed by transphobes in bathrooms.

So you'd be okay walking in to the bathroom and finding those two? You wouldn't feel uncomfortable?

Do transactivists genuinely think that if they can force women into a corner over something like this, it's an argument for their case, and not ours? It's so illogical.

If women are telling people they think are men to get out, it's because they don't want men in there. It's not an argument for admitting men.

Is it supposed to be an argument designed to make women feel bad about excluding men??

Ah, maybe I've just answered my own question.

Yeah, I'm never gonna feel bad about that.

if masculine women are being mistaken for men, that's 100% the fault of transactivism.

All these ridiculous scenarios are just more reasons on the list of why men are not acceptable in women's spaces.

honestly, one day, someone with more patience than me will list the frankly infinite number of ways transactivism shoots itself in the foot. I've never met such a self-defeating ideology in all my life.

Datun · 30/10/2022 12:13

Thehawki · 30/10/2022 10:00

Thank you for your detailed reply! I actually had never heard this line of thinking and appreciate others who have also educated me. I also appreciate that everyone didn’t pile on angrily and the majority of posters were mostly just frustrated with me for genuinely not understanding 😅

You're welcome.

And you can see why many women think this is such a regressive ideology.

You've got young girls in school, possibly lesbian or maybe a bit butch, not into make-up or high heels, being told they must be boys. Heaven forbid that a gender nonconforming girl can still remain a girl.

Society is is trying to push people, including children, into smaller and smaller gendered boxes.

It's not surprising. I'll post some teaching aids by mermaids, the charity that 'teaches' transgenderism in schools They ask children to pick their gender, based on a spectrum from Barbie to GI Joe. And if a girl picks something towards the GI Joe end, maybe she's not a girl, maybe she's a trans boy. And likewise with the boys.

Girls are being actively taught that certain stereotypes belong to males and others belong to females. It's sexist, misogynist, and oh so regressive.

Feminists, by the nature of the beast, are fine-tuned to identify misogyny. They can spot this stuff at fifty paces, and have been trying to highlight it for years.

But I defy anyone, feminist or not, to look at these teaching aids and not find them actively shocking in their sexism.

Woman harassed in women's bathroom by a gender critical woman who thinks she is trans, she is upset by the experience.
TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 12:19

I love that number 7 is wearing shoulder pads.

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 12:19

Or maybe puff sleeves? 🤔

Helleofabore · 30/10/2022 12:21

If males cannot respect female’s need for single sex spaces to remain single sex after being told it causes distress to females in those spaces, the issue is their lack of respect.

That they are told by others that they are righteous to be that disrespectful is on those who have given males the sense they can continue to be disrespectful.

To be subject to endless ‘Whatabout’ thought experiments in an attempt at some kind of justification is tedious. Yet we will continue to persevere and rebut them. The foundation fact at the base of this is and always will be that people cannot change sex. Females use toilets for far more than because ‘they just want to pee’. Females have been very vocal and there actually should be no males left in any doubt that females in the majority do not want males in their single sex spaces.

Therefore those continuing to use the spaces most likely can be said to simply have no respect at all for females.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:21

@Helleofabore
I see we are again using ‘Whatabout these females’ to leverage males into female single sex spaces.

Who is doing that? The OP? I certainly am not. You can abhor harassment and recognise it is happening because of GC women being emboldened by extremists, without using the existence of such harassment for other political ends. Saying that it’s only to “leverage males into female single sex spaces” is dismissive and disingenuous.

Females were not consulted before males were told by other well meaning males that they should and could use the female single sex spaces.

Bullshit. There were plenty of females in the government that were full participants in this & agreed to it. Saying it was only males making these decisions is like saying it’s only men in the US voting on and passing the abortion bans- a complete lie. Plenty of women in power were and are part of this. In addition, the public has been consulted as well. In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:27

@Datun
If women are telling people they think are men to get out, it's because they don't want men in there. It's not an argument for admitting men.

No one on this thread is making that argument. You and others seem determined to argue that public harassment of people you think might be in the wrong toilet is acceptable in a civilised society and the perpetrators aren’t responsible for their actions. Why is that? You have to know failing to acknowledge this is a problem within the GC community puts people off from aligning with them.

Its one reason why I am not GC. Nor am I a TRA. You all need to do some housecleaning.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:31

IcakethereforeIam · 30/10/2022 11:18

@Discovereads isn't a tra, argumentative and tenacious (not a criticism btw), and, maybe, only a leetle bit gc.

Thanks. You got me spot on. I’m centrist on this issue.

WandaWomblesaurus · 30/10/2022 12:31

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:27

@Datun
If women are telling people they think are men to get out, it's because they don't want men in there. It's not an argument for admitting men.

No one on this thread is making that argument. You and others seem determined to argue that public harassment of people you think might be in the wrong toilet is acceptable in a civilised society and the perpetrators aren’t responsible for their actions. Why is that? You have to know failing to acknowledge this is a problem within the GC community puts people off from aligning with them.

Its one reason why I am not GC. Nor am I a TRA. You all need to do some housecleaning.

But if the woman shouting at the short haired woman is GC why would she assume a woman with short hair is a man? Gender Critical means to reject gender stereotypes.
I don't understand your point.

Where is the evidence to suggest the woman doing the insulting is gender critical?

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:43

WandaWomblesaurus · 30/10/2022 12:31

But if the woman shouting at the short haired woman is GC why would she assume a woman with short hair is a man? Gender Critical means to reject gender stereotypes.
I don't understand your point.

Where is the evidence to suggest the woman doing the insulting is gender critical?

The words from her mouth are line by line from the GC playbook. Also the whole call to action to confront people in the toilets is of GC activist origin. NonGC people do not do this.

The woman she harassed looked very young, like a teen boy as many androgynous young women do.

Gender Critical means to reject gender stereotypes. Urm, that’s what many GC say, but when it comes to profiling who to harass they very much depend on visual gender stereotypes to “sex” an individual.

Clymene · 30/10/2022 12:56

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Which is a decrease from the previous year when 72% of women said they were okay with it, demonstrating that more women are becoming aware that men who transition represent no lesser risk than any other man and that most of them still have their male genitalia.

Incidentally, why are you using US terminology? We say public toilet, not bathroom.

Datun · 30/10/2022 12:57

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 12:19

Or maybe puff sleeves? 🤔

I think it's a broken arm. All the giving of the finger to transactivism has finally fractured her humerus.

Clymene · 30/10/2022 12:58

Now I've seen the clip with her face, there's no way anyone thought that was a man GrinGrinGrinGrin

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:01

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Well, yes. Because some ‘transgender persons’ are female!

Female NB people are under the trans umbrella, as are butch lesbians. Some NB people are indistinguishable from non-non binary people of their sex.

It’s the sex bit that matters, not the transgender bit.

Datun · 30/10/2022 13:04

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 12:27

@Datun
If women are telling people they think are men to get out, it's because they don't want men in there. It's not an argument for admitting men.

No one on this thread is making that argument. You and others seem determined to argue that public harassment of people you think might be in the wrong toilet is acceptable in a civilised society and the perpetrators aren’t responsible for their actions. Why is that? You have to know failing to acknowledge this is a problem within the GC community puts people off from aligning with them.

Its one reason why I am not GC. Nor am I a TRA. You all need to do some housecleaning.

Haha!! It's not a 'problem'. That's one person, if it's even authentic.

But it's hilarious that you expect me to believe that the behaviour of one, possibly three women makes you not want to reject damaging gender stereotyping responsible for holding back girls and women for millennia.

Honestly, if I had a penny for every time someone said eg Posie made them not want to be a feminist or women protesting made a person reject gender criticism.

Go ahead and accept gender instead of criticising it. You won't be alone.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 30/10/2022 13:07

Clymene · 30/10/2022 12:56

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Which is a decrease from the previous year when 72% of women said they were okay with it, demonstrating that more women are becoming aware that men who transition represent no lesser risk than any other man and that most of them still have their male genitalia.

Incidentally, why are you using US terminology? We say public toilet, not bathroom.

Maybe they should rephrase the question, would you be happy with a man using the womens bathrooms? Thats the same question, and I bet the majority would say no.

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:19

TheClogLady · 30/10/2022 13:01

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Well, yes. Because some ‘transgender persons’ are female!

Female NB people are under the trans umbrella, as are butch lesbians. Some NB people are indistinguishable from non-non binary people of their sex.

It’s the sex bit that matters, not the transgender bit.

Well no, because the question they asked was:

”We asked separate questions to men and women. To women we asked the following question:
Please think about a transgender woman - that is a man who has gone through all or part of a process to become a woman. How comfortable or uncomfortable would you be for a transgender woman to use female public toilets?”

and
”For this survey we used a definition of transgender people that was developed in past research (Balarajan et al, 2011):
[people who] have gone through all or part of a process (including thoughts or actions) to change the sex they were described as at birth to the gender they identify with, or intend to. This might include by changing their name, wearing different clothes, taking hormones or having gender reassignment surgery”

Discovereads · 30/10/2022 13:22

Clymene · 30/10/2022 12:56

In 2020 research conducted as part of NatCen's British Social Attitudes survey found that 66% of women said they were comfortable with a transgender person using a female bathroom.

Which is a decrease from the previous year when 72% of women said they were okay with it, demonstrating that more women are becoming aware that men who transition represent no lesser risk than any other man and that most of them still have their male genitalia.

Incidentally, why are you using US terminology? We say public toilet, not bathroom.

Because I’m British but I lived in the US for years, so sometimes I’m not completely code switched.