Standing for women - Portland rally cancelled over violent threats

[ArabellaScott]

Not quite sure what's happened - seems there were credible threats to women's lives over these protests.

twitter.com/StandingforXX

Now it seems a few women went ahead and met up and were attacked. (Nobody seriously hurt as far as I can tell)

twitter.com/ReduxxMag/status/1585012546766966784

Hoping everyone is safe and well.

I'll be honest, I'm still stuck on the security question too, but from a different POV.

My question is... in the USA, a pro-guns country, in a state that allows open carryj, when you are not a resident of that country so carrying self-protective weapons would be... iffy, when have received threats against you, and you know the "bad guys" have guns, and you have been told the police (the "good guys" unless ACAB again today, which weirdly depends on who needs them ) will not come if you call them...
Why do you think it is an issue for an employed security team to ALSO open-carry?

Neither are eggs. But when John Prescott was struck by one at close range, he punched the idiot who threw it. As would most people.

There is at least one woman attending who was open carrying, not security.

Right. I am back from lunch. Let's look at this.

Germaine Greer has been celebrated and denounced very often by feminists, I think that by now she people don't tend to find that she is a 'spokesperson' or actually representative. But nice try.

James Cantor (who?) and Ray Blanchard? I have listened to Blanchard and I find him more than a bit misogynistic. What do you think? Yes, his work has been quoted, but he could not be considered a representative of the feminist movement. I don't even know why you mentioned him.

Hands Across The Aisle founder Kaeley Triller narrowly avoiding a conviction for statutory rape after having sex with a minor she had previously been a school counsellor for?*. Was she found guilty at all? Did she admit engaging in a sexual relationship with that minor? What is feminist about engaging with sex with a minor? Have we been supporting this person?

So this is what you have got?

Fuck. You know that we can simply post statements from Veronica Ivy, Lavery, Chou, Alok, Fae and a slew of others. We have them to hand. Statements directly from transitioned males.

We can even post the now numerous posts from posters dismissing the violence against the women speaking at these events.

Plus, we can simply keep on going.

And I can go and find images of people who then are in photos with those people and make ridiculous accusations about them too.

But this is not the point.

The entire point was that you continue to attempt to draw meaningful 'alignments' from the act the hiring of a professional services from someone you disagree with.

While also missing the fucking point that if the women were not in danger from that violence you keep dismissing, and the police attended as they do here, Kellie Jay would not have to use a security firm.

Who is it again that is violent towards the women speaking?

Trans people and their allies.

Not some people loosely with the same aims but with very different motivations. Actual trans people flying flags and representing that community.

Therefore, please do keep on posting bollocks like:

Lots of 'progressives' as I believe they call themselves over there have been confused about what is taking place regarding trans issues in the UK and these events have really shown how comfortable the gender critical movement are co-operating with the far right. Pics of Kellie Jay with Proud Boys members and using security firms linked to right wing militias are things that are a big deal over there.

and

As probably now the best known gender critical activist from the UK in the US she's picked a side for the gender critical movement and it's not one most decent people want to go anywhere near.

And we will continue to show what women will find when they start actually researching what these brave women are talking about. And for every 'pic with a problematic person' they might find, if they even know who that person is, they will find so much more that is real, solid evidence that backs up those women's voices that frankly, a pic with a random person that she has no connection to, or using a service provider that has x political affiliations will be assessed for being completely irrelevant to message from those women.

And any wise woman who has plenty of experience in life will understand the motivation that drives these superficial and spurious claims such as yours.

They will see them, do some digging and realise that they are driven from the frustration and fury of women saying no to males.

So what? I wouldn't. But these women are not me. And I am not about to denigrate them for choosing to do something that seems to be legal in that state.

How have they harmed women by doing this? Have they exploited other women?

This is another display of that intolerance.

Do you think that no left wing women 'carry' in a country where it is legal? Do you think no 'left wing' women own pistols or rifles?

Why do you believe that left wing women are so homogeneous or should be?

What's the problem in having armed security in a country where it's legal?

I refered to a newspaper article reporting this exact thing.

I was comparing a group of GC people being custard pied and sprayed with silly spring, and the same crowd pepper spraying kids. I am well aware they are different events, it's just the hyprocrisy here which is noteable.

Please link the newspaper article.

And have you read the thread? Have you seen the evidence that has been posted?

Or are you just going to double down on spreading misinformation because ‘you read it in a newspaper article’ and never bothered to read the thread?

Speaking of hypocrisy, eh?

Gee, I don't know! Could it have anything to do with:

---Almost total lack of worker protections in the US. There will be no US Maya Forstater. If a woman's employer spots her speaking at or even attending a SFW event, she can very easily lose her job with no recourse.

---No national health system, so losing your employment means losing your health insurance. Not just for the employee, but also for any dependents including children.

---Various states removing children who say they are the opposite sex from their parents' custody if the parents do not enthusiastically affirm the child's cross-sex identity.

---The constant intimidation, threats, harassment AND ACTUAL VIOLENCE E.G. BREAKING WOMEN'S HANDS coming from the male supremacist activists against women who do show up, and the knowledge that it is very easy for anyone, including violent males, to obtain firearms in our country.

The newspaper article was the same one posted and dissected right at the beginning of the thread, on page 5 by Livvyposts.

Sigh.

I know.... how about if they are happening during the day, because of the very tight schedule, people can't get time off work or off caring duties.

Or that people are fucking scared to turn up.

It isn't that fucking hard.

But I remember someone tried this line about women's protests a couple of years ago. On mumsnet. (The poster was a male) They then expolated that at the time, using the mid-week protest numbers there was only 2K - 3K women who supported prioritising sex over gender in the UK.

At a time when AIBU votes on these topics were getting nearly 2,000 voters.

I did link the article, did read the thread, and the supposed takedown missed the evidence to which I was referring:

"Counter-protesters Katy Evans and Sweet Pea Flaherty offered comfort to the young counter-protesters, many who appeared to be Tacoma School of the Arts students. Several required water to flush their eyes."

Several children were pepper sprayed.

Several required water to flush their eyes."

Several children were pepper sprayed.

The article says this;

One counter-protester sprayed the rally with Silly String. Hoch responded with pepper spray and hit a different nearby counter-protester, Lorenzo Cervantes, in the face with the painful liquid. “They used violent tactics,” Cervantes said later. “(Hoch) came prepared to hurt somebody. We weren’t hurting anybody.”

So, yes. A woman, who was assaulted in the Portland rally, used pepper spray on an attacker who sprayed Silly String.

And you think that the woman is the instigator and should not have defended herself against another attack?

Are you that much into dismissal of violence against women DadJoke?

"We weren’t hurting anybody.”

Who told this students (children? or like the other spitter over 18?) that spraying anything into the face of woman was 'not hurting anybody'?

Is that the same people who told them spitting is ok?

Is that the same people who told them that continuing their intimidation tactics while women left the area was ok?

Is that the same people who told them they were the most 'tolerant' people?

Is that the same people who told them that mobbing women was ok too?

Because if I were you, I would most definitely be talking to them and sending the blame there way.

Should JeannaHoch have had pepper spray? Well, I wouldn't have. But then I am not in a position of being assaulted very recently.

Should her actions be investigated? Yes. And the same goes for the students. Those students should absolutely be investigated equally.

But you are here with yet more attempting to dismiss violence against women. That must make you feel very powerful or something.

Just to be clear:

Hoch, a Denver resident, said she was spit at and pushed. She said she had been assaulted Tuesday at a rally in Portland.

So, was she one of these women who got a 'not violent at all, just political expression' pies in the face?

And you fucking wonder why women are so fucking angry they feel the need to defend themselves for simply attending a rally for women to speak about their experiences.

Fuck, some people are so absolutely keen to deny the reality.

Who again are the people who are committing this violence against women? Extreme trans activists (which may or may not include trans people).

Who again are these people intimidating?
Women who are speaking in public about their needs!

Which 'side' is this again who is doing the intimidating to silence women?
Oh... that would be the fucking left wing side apparently, because apparently we are all split into left and right wing.

Shall we keep saying it for those who simply cannot acknowledge the reality when it is right there in front of them?

Oh and by the way. Are these women out there seeking out trans people and yelling and screaming and spitting in their face? Or are extremists attending a publicly held rally and doing just that to women who they disagree with?

Are the women doing anything more than speaking, singing, chanting and holding up signs?

Are they finding a group of trans people and harassing them and assaulting them?

No. They are small groups who are turning up, and talking.

Imagine being THAT scared of women talking that you commit violent acts to shut them up.

How fucking tolerant.

Yep. The small numbers of attendees really make that apparent.

Not blaming anyone. I'd go nowhere near an emotionally charged situations with guns being carried, but a few dozen women talking about eg their children being put on a medical pathway and that somehow needs to be shut down with aggression and violence.

Given that people are arguing that pepper spraying someone in the face is a legitimate response to silly string then I think people having guns stuffed in their jeans at these protests is very concerning.

They had death threats in a country where guns are perfectly legal.

Of course if they just let the women speak, there would be no trouble. Crazy idea but that's the point she is making.

Who said that? Could you quote them?

Just read mumsnet threads

you seem to be making the common mistake of assuming it's just one woman posting here

plus you of course

you get to be an individual, what with you being so special

Almost total lack of worker protections in the US. There will be no US Maya Forstater. If a woman's employer spots her speaking at or even attending a SFW event, she can very easily lose her job with no recourse.

An entire school district needing to be shut down recently due to the number of bomb threats schools were receiving after one school supported a trans child. A bus load of heavily armed men was intercepted by police on their way to attack a Pride march. There have been physical attacks on LGBTQ community centres and events and providers of trans healthcare have been deluged with threats of violence.

One high profile Republican has called for trans people and trans allies to be executed as traitors. Several states have banned books in school libraries simply for mentioning trans people and same sex relationships. LGBTQ teachers are coming under repeated attacks and being accused of being groomers and child abusers. And the Republican Party is trying to push through laws which will make it illegal for a trans person to work in any job where they might come into contact with children.

The idea that people in the US are terrified of speaking out against trans or LGBTQ people is ridiculous.

Are you again dismissing the violence against women on this thread?

Are we again dismissing the very violence that has been directed toward these women speaking?

And are you attempting here to blame women speaking for any of these event?

What is the connection between these women having violence directed at them for speaking and these event you mention here?