Non binary/transgender teacher

[Luckymumtotwo]

I am going to refer to the teacher as male because my child genuinely does not know how they currently identify. Sounds like they were male and then to be addressed as they/them and DS thinks might now be a transgender woman - changed name and hair - but DC is not certain.

Apparently children have been told off for addressing him as he and DS tells me that he doesn't ask him anything if he can help it because he doesn't know what to say.

Teacher has asked them to address him by a short version of his first name which I've only heard used for a female previously. DS feels awkward using it. Other teachers are not addressed by first names and usually addressed as Sir/miss.

I might ask school to revise how this teacher is addressed. Maybe "Teacher"? Not sure that works but I'd rather not have the casual use of a shortened first name where this isn't what generally happens.

My son is already used to asking people how they want to be addressed due to various identities in classmates and doesn't usually feel awkward. I think it's because it's an adult. At 12 I don't think he should have to ask the teacher.

Back when I was at school though, we tended to know almost nothing about our teachers. They were there as teachers and all the stuff in their personal lives just wasn’t part of anything. They most certainly didn’t bring their whole self to work. And it wasn’t really a problem.

I mean, some of them would sometimes mention a husband (mostly in primary school) but actually I cannot recall any of my primary teachers even telling us about their children. tbh, I think most of us almost assumed the teachers only really existed at school. If you saw one at the shops, it was a shock!

Most of the secondary teachers were a black box and the only things we knew about them were largely subject related.

I can’t help but think all this identity stuff should be background stuff that doesn’t interfere with the role someone is playing (teacher!) when they go to work. Recognise that the kids need a simple, clear (single) decision on how they should address you that falls within the conventions used at school. And just view it as that. It’s not the defining feature of you and has no bearing on your personal life whether you make a strategic decision that you’ll be either Sir or Miss at work (or even that you don’t care which the kids use - you’ll answer to either). Or working with the SLT to choose one additional form of address that everyone can use and isn’t specific to your preference (it could be teacher, for example).

the problem comes where the school has to keep investing new, you-specific modes of address that are quite at odds with the conventions. And it inevitably confuses the kids.

When I was at primary - vaguely aware if one teacher being married (small town, he had a very visible disability, he knew my dad) the rest? Didn’t know, didn’t care. Was there to learn not validate a sensitive soul. Adults should be adult.

Try this was very clear in your OP.
Some people have made it an issue. Exactly the same way than it happens in many other threads - they only read what they want to read, focus on one small little part if the OP and run away with it.

I can’t help but think all this identity stuff should be background stuff that doesn’t interfere with the role someone is playing (teacher!) when they go to work

Agree with this.

Any sort of behaviour where teachers are informal and over-familiar with pupils is rightly regarded as poor judgement, or a low level safeguarding concern. It reduces the professional boundary and also undermines colleagues who maintain professional distance.

If a child feels uncomfortable in a classroom and is unwilling to ask questions or participate for any reason then it's reasonable for a parent to discuss their concerns with the school. In this case, the children need to have a clear, appropriate form of address for a member of staff and know that if they make a mistake then they're not risking being in trouble.

If Genderism is taught in schools, if the rainbow flag was removed from all materials in the curriculum is that transphobic?

Trans people have existed just as long as everyone else. It’s a good thing this boy is becoming aware of it.

Rather missing the point. Presumably if there have been other trans teachers at the school, when they were introduced as a teacher they have been introduced with their name? It would be unusual, IMO, for every member of staff to be Ms/Mr and one gets their first name.

The issue here is that a child is afraid to ask for fear of making a mistake. There is no blame attached here - children are afraid of making mistakes. All it takes is a note from the school admin (or whoever does this) to say this teacher is Ms X.

It's very much not the norm for pupils to use first names for teachers. It's part of the boundaries that are in place. I did wonder, does this teacher take an arty subject where it might be more normal to want to be unconventional - say, art or drama, rather than maths?

I quoted someone’s full post verbatim to disagree with it.

You cut my post off mid sentence to suit your agenda.

If you can’t tell the difference between those things or think they’re the same you shouldn’t really be discussing things on a forum for grown-ups

Trans people have existed just as long as everyone else

Have they though?
There is plenty of documented evidence of LBG being around for a very long time.
Is there the same amount of (or any) non biased evidence for Trans?

This is the group that has form for rewriting history.

"I quoted someone’s full post verbatim to disagree with it."

The poster you quoted said we should teach tolerance. Which you then changed to "tolerance of performative narcissim", when you don't know the individual involved and are not in any position to assert she is a narcissist simply because she is trans. Even the op admitted she knows nothing about the teacher's background.

That's simply you demonstrating your prejudice. By your own admission you disagreed with the poster talking about tolerance. I agree with that poster and disagree with you.

The teacher is a male and has not asked to be referred to as a female so why the female pronouns?

Could have written this. My DC came home from school upset and confused being sent out of class for accidentally calling a non-binary/ poss trans, D.C. isn’t sure ‘sir’ instead of an an abbrev of a first name ( possibly, again D.C. isn’t sure)
totally accidental as DC said the teacher does have a beard and DC was struggling with using ‘ros’ instead as all other teachers are miss/ms/sir. It was the first time being taught by this teacher.
apparently the teacher accused several of the class of misgendering. Transphobia, and abusing their ‘privilege’ and at one point racism even though the teacher appears to be white.
we’re a LGBTQ family with many gay/bi/trans friends so there was no way it was deliberate and DC ( year 7) says it was just very confusing and the teacher was being horrible to lots of them.
Normally we keep well out of it and trust the school but this seemed all a bit OTT and because they were doing a a
special whole school business enterprise the class weee stuck with this teacher all day across activities.

I'd put in a complaint, Basketball. That's not on. I've worked in schools, no sensible adult cares if they get called the wrong name now and again.

Arabella's right Basketball. Parents are going to have to intervene when nonsense like this happens. School rules are meant to be easily understood, clear and easy to follow. Punishing a child for accurately sexing an adult male who wishes to be known by a nick name? when the protocol is Miss, Mrs, Mr etc is unfair.
The school operates for the benefit of children, their learning and development, not for self involved adults to use children as self validation tools.
Complain until the school takes responsibility for managing the situation effectively. .

Thanks. I think I will. It’s a great school, and very liberal, lots of LGBTQ+ teachers and support for kids etc. but this really pissed me off. D.C. was a mix of angry, confused and upset at being made to report to the tutor. Tutor apparently was lovely, and believed it was a mistake but said we -parents- would be informed that DC had been sent out of class for behavioural issues.
I haven’t heard anything but this is std procedure for the school although neither of our DC have ever been sent to the office for anything before - it’s an escalation as there’s various steps before being thrown out of class including being issued with same day detention.

Luckily this isn’t a regular teacher for DC, but I’m not sure if it was a sub, a TA, support staff or a subject teacher although D.C. said the kids were chatting at break times and
some knew them.
Seems like they had a Shiite day as they ended up being too afraid to speak up then the teacher lost the rag with them for not participating properly.

When I was a child there were adverts on tv warning children not to believe men who said they wanted to show them puppies or that they were picking them up because their mum was ill. Now we’ve got nutcase parents and educational institutions colluding with this idea that when a adult says something patently untrue, the child must go along with it because that is ‘kind’ and ‘tolerant’ and ‘respectful’.

It’s gaslighting children to behave in way contrary to the evidence of their own eyes and instincts.

I have no issue using preferred pronouns, nor do D.C. but in this case it seems like a massive over-reaction to a slip up that I would make myself half the time, and grandstanding over it too.
a couple of other kids I know who were accused of also misgendering I happen to know REALLy well and there’s no way they were taking the piss. One of them is gay themselves.

@Basketballqueen I wonder if it's the same school. Maybe not as I don't think my child's school has detention. Do you live near the sea? (I don't know why I'm being discreet, given the thread that's probably enough to identify where I live!)

You were lucky, one of my pupils called me grandad. Poor kid was embarrassed when they realised. It's about reassuring them and making sure they are ok.

Talked to a couple of teacher friends who reckon this was well out of order, so I think I will go in and have a chat with the form tutor just to clarify a few things.

I do think there is an issue with preferred pronouns as a teacher. It is compelling children to affirm that you are a woman if you are a man, or a they if you are non binary. This should be up to a child’s belief system and should not be compelled from a teacher. It is telling them that biology is not binary, when in fact many people including myself believe that it is, and that is OK.

I think it is fine for a teacher to dress as a woman, and say that they like to dress as a woman. Honestly I think it should be normal if men want to wear a skirt as it is to have long hair. But no comment or affirmations! It is not up to children in your class to affirm your wish to be a they or a woman and this includes pronouns.

Nope. My English teacher was a lesbian and history teacher was gay. And that just off the top of my head.