Non binary/transgender teacher

[Luckymumtotwo]

I am going to refer to the teacher as male because my child genuinely does not know how they currently identify. Sounds like they were male and then to be addressed as they/them and DS thinks might now be a transgender woman - changed name and hair - but DC is not certain.

Apparently children have been told off for addressing him as he and DS tells me that he doesn't ask him anything if he can help it because he doesn't know what to say.

Teacher has asked them to address him by a short version of his first name which I've only heard used for a female previously. DS feels awkward using it. Other teachers are not addressed by first names and usually addressed as Sir/miss.

I might ask school to revise how this teacher is addressed. Maybe "Teacher"? Not sure that works but I'd rather not have the casual use of a shortened first name where this isn't what generally happens.

My son is already used to asking people how they want to be addressed due to various identities in classmates and doesn't usually feel awkward. I think it's because it's an adult. At 12 I don't think he should have to ask the teacher.

The Safeguarding Alliance's recommendations are stated in that report, including a recommendation for a mandatory requirement for all DBS applicants to produce a copy of their birth certicate in an attempt to stop those who are withholding previous names in order to circumvent safeguarding. Those who have a new birth certificate under the provisions of the Gender Recognition Act will have a birth certificate which states their acquired name and gender (and which does not indicate that it is a reissued birth certificate with a different name).

KPSS report linked above, p16.

How does this prove there is a loophole?

It simply says transgender applicants should contact for advice.

You may choose to interpret this as a loophole but it is not one in fact.

It relies on the transgender person to be honest about their old names.

That's the point. Only transgender people get this option. Why?

Only transgender people can change their sex on their birth certificates. Why?

You think every person is innocent, great. But why is one sacred caste not held to the same processes as everyone else?

At the moment this is nothing but hot air. These recommendations are not yet in place and neither is there any indication that they will be any time soon. So claiming there is currently a loophole that uniquely allows transpeople to circumvent DBS safeguarding checks is - factually - a lie.

At the moment, anyone can circumvent a DBS check if they withhold information. So once again for the gallery, there is no current existing loophole specifically allowing transpeople to dodge DBS checks.

Please let's not whip up any more hysteria by peddling inaccuracies.

I don't understand what you don't understand about this.

Anyone who has changed their name for any reason can choose to lie and not to give their old name on a DBS form. DBS forms are filled in by the person applying for them. This has always made them vulnerable to fraudulent activity.

Regardless of what their birth certificate says, trans people are still required to give their previous legal name on their DBS form. There is therefore a process in place to ensure that a thorough check is carried out in this circumstance.

Yes a transperson could lie and not provide their previous name - but so could anyone.

Therefore your claim that trans people are treated differently is a lie.

For pities sake.

'For the gallery' (seriously?), there is a current issue with people withholding their previous names in order to circumvent safeguarding. The Government received a petition and the resulting recommendations by the Safeguarding Alliance include DBS applicants producing their birth certificate. They seem to have not considered any issues caused by birth certificates which have been reissued with new information.

So a current loophole, for which attempts are being currently taken to close, will still apply to those who have an amended birth certificate.

When an issue or gap in safeguarding is identified, attempts should be made to close that loophole for everyone

Regardless of what their birth certificate says, trans people are still required to give their previous legal name on their DBS form. There is therefore a process in place to ensure that a thorough check is carried out in this circumstance.

No they are not.

So a rapist 'transitions' in prison and applies for a job at a school. And just puts their new name on the form and applies. Doesn't contact the DBS to inform them of the past name [which is linked to the rape, because duh].

What safeguards are ACTUALLY in place to stop this?

I don't disagree. There should be no loopholes in DBS checks whatsoever. Any loopholes that exist should be closed and the process made as robust as possible. DBS checks are a farce and have been for years. I haven't said anything otherwise.

However, believing this to be true does not negate the fact that, contrary to your claims, at the moment there is no loophole within the DBS system that exclusively privileges trans people and allows them the opportunity to circumvent DBS checks more easily than anyone else.

That is simply the point I am making. It is factually inaccurate to claim that transpeople are uniquely able to circumvent the current DBS check system. If the safeguarding alliance's recommendations come to pass, and there is no additional check to compensate for the issue around trans people's birth certificates, then the situation will change. But at the moment, these recommendations aren't in place so they don't apply.

Haven't made this up.

Yes I posted aware the discussion might spark transphobia allegations but hoping it wouldn't and certainly no ulterior motive to stir up discord. Its tedious to read the those accusations. Its tedious that is still where the discussion goes. This is not a topic can be discussed in real life hence posting here hoping for space to think.

I have compassion for trans people. That's not the issue. "Do I agree you can change sex? Personally, no. But I don't understand what it's like to feel I am the wrong sex. I have no idea what it's like to walk in a trans person's shoes." Yep I have said pretty much this to DS who tends to have that young thing of thinking his view is the only view. I do not think I have posted a thread that is transphobic/encouraging transphobia, whipping up hysteria or any other sexist shit you want to spout about a valid conversation about children.

But they are. They are supposed to contact the DBS. So there is a system in place.

The fact that they can abuse the system doesn't mean there isn't a system in place.

Unfortunately the reality is that DBS checks rely on people being honest. As I have said repeatedly, anyone can withhold any information they like from their DBS check.

Let's say I changed my name by deed poll. The form requires me to provide my previous name. But no one is watching me fill in the form. So I can just not do it.

That's the nature of a DBS check. It's always been this way.

So it's not a failsafe system, for anyone, and never has been.

Anyone can withhold information but only trans people can change the sex on their birth certificate and decide to not put their old names on. They are the only people not tracked on sex offenders register for example after a name change.

It is the reason that the activists are so violently opposed to dead naming.

If the DBS system isn't a robust system then it isn't a system. It's a sham.

It is now not worth the paper it comes printed on. Totally destroyed.

Teachers are not allowed to bring their personal fads and fancies, politics, religion into school with them. They should not impose their lifestyles and beliefs on children, especially young children who can't understand it.

Yes the teacher sounds very intolerant to me too

When I had a dbs check I had to bring in my birth certificate. Payslip, passport and proof of address fir the last 5 years. And as it was an enhanced DBS, have an interview and get it signed by two referees of good standing. It is up to the organisation if they want to do further checks. I know they also did a social media search. I think we should make lying or omitting information on a DBS illegal. Maybe that would deter those people who try to circumnavigate the rules

Ditto. Children should not be used as props for someone else's fetish/mental health issue/narcissism (whichever applies here).

Tell your child that the person is male, will always be male no matter what they want to call themselves, and it's not a crime to call them "sir".

We cannot teach children to ignore their instincts. It's a safeguarding issue.

Why should we be treating children to tolerate performative narcissism? That teacher is there to teach the children that particular subject, not to be validated or use it to “explore their identity”.

"Why should we be treating children to tolerate"

Because some of their peers may be trans or questioning their identity etc and school needs to a safe space for all, including trans pupils and staff members...

Indeed, lots of children are caught up in the social contagion of all this. The new NHS regulations coming in will hopefully help.

Non binary, as a "special" identity is relatively new (obviously androgynous people are not, but there wasnt the title/ pronoun thing in the past). It doesn't come under the Equality Act, which is reassigning "gender" from male to female or visa versa.

The teacher should not be using their first name, unless this is school policy throughout, but I think it's fine to email and ask for a title. It's probably Mx, which is pronounced Mix. If Mx is so special, good luck to them out there.

You missed off the end of that quote.

It said 'performative nascissism'. Children shouldn't be trained on jumping through illlogical hoops demanded by performative narcissists. How is any of this to be benefit of the kids who now don't even know what to call their teacher? This child knows something is wrong here.

Pretty pathetic attempt to misquote/decontextualise what I was saying. Are you always so disingenuous?
if you’re having to effectively lie to get your point across you probably know it holds no water

Children really shouldn’t have to be having to deal with this. Scared of misgendering a teacher? Someone in teaching really should centre the students and focus in them and not their own belly button.

At secondary school we had a Mr McQueen. He was usually called Missus McQueen. We’d all have been suspended these days!

"Pretty pathetic attempt to misquote/decontextualise what I was saying"

Ironic that this is essentially what you did to a pp. Pathetic indeed.

"Indeed, lots of children are caught up in the social contagion of all this"

Perhaps - but there's also an element of trans becoming more recognised as it is seen as socially acceptable and not something to hide.

The same effect was seen with writing left handed and homosexuality for example.

The same effect was seen with writing left handed and homosexuality for example.

Being left or right handed, or your sexuality do not determine what toilets, sports, prisons, hospital wards, changing rooms, pronouns, etc to use

Rather a huge difference.