Non binary/transgender teacher

[Luckymumtotwo]

I am going to refer to the teacher as male because my child genuinely does not know how they currently identify. Sounds like they were male and then to be addressed as they/them and DS thinks might now be a transgender woman - changed name and hair - but DC is not certain.

Apparently children have been told off for addressing him as he and DS tells me that he doesn't ask him anything if he can help it because he doesn't know what to say.

Teacher has asked them to address him by a short version of his first name which I've only heard used for a female previously. DS feels awkward using it. Other teachers are not addressed by first names and usually addressed as Sir/miss.

I might ask school to revise how this teacher is addressed. Maybe "Teacher"? Not sure that works but I'd rather not have the casual use of a shortened first name where this isn't what generally happens.

My son is already used to asking people how they want to be addressed due to various identities in classmates and doesn't usually feel awkward. I think it's because it's an adult. At 12 I don't think he should have to ask the teacher.

If I were you I'd remove your son from the school OP.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a clarification of address - or perhaps the use of first name is that.

It's happened for my children when female teachers changed names upon marriage - and in one case changed back within the school year due to separation- it was made clear to parents and children what the name was and mistakes were just corrected.

Could they not do an "Excuse me - then relevant question as no gender way of getting attention?

Or is it fear of getting it wrong - I rarely spoke or asked questions in school partly fear I'd say something wrong or get bullied later - only to have teachers complain I didn't talk much - but others asked questions so it worked fine. If none of the class are asking questions in case they say something wrong then that must be impacting teaching results.

At 12 it's a secondary school - so depending on subject may only see teacher few hours a week if that - some my DC see once a fortnight - 2 week timetable.

May also not be places at other schools or other schools may be worse - if it was primary and a entire year every school day I'd say similar.

I would suggest any parent should be alerted safeguarding wise by a teacher telling 12 years olds to call them by their first name. In this case there is a clear reason - an approach to gender identity issues - and there could be other valid reasons (teacher has taught in a school where first names were the norm etc). But worth questioning. Surprised to think anyone could flat out state no safeguarding issue.

And I would never ignore a child's discomfort. That's very unsafe. And even if not unsafe in a particular situation it doesn't usually help in terms of prejudice. Open conversations about discomfort, eg around disability, race etc, are usually more helpful for a child.

To those posters talking about how it quickly became the norm, it may well be that this situation settles.

Just email the teacher and ask how they want to be addressed. Explain that your DS is unsure but wants to get it right. Job done. You may be over-thinking this.

😂 right.

I think you’re right to be confused op. All you have to do is go in and say you son is confused about how to address the teacher. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking that. In fact from the school’s point of view it is a sensitive, positive act. Hopefully this simplifies think and if this person is a good teacher then that’s all good!

I would approach the school, because as others have said the normal approach is to issue a statement about the teachers new name, identity, and the form of address they want the pupils to use. So if the school hasn't done that, its possible they aren't aware of this teachers change of identity.

I also think the teacher will understand that some people might find it difficult. I wouldn’t worry about that at all. The issue you have it how to address the teacher, not what the gender actually is. Just like you don’t need to know their sexuality either. Or favourite food.

Please ignore the posters who seem to automatically hate this teacher and think your son needs to be removed hmm I wonder why mumsnet gets called transphobic.

Can't believe pps are suggesting removing DC from school which is a massive overreaction to my mind, and reinforces the narrative that all transwomen are sexual predators. I'm as GC as they come but have zero issue with a transwoman teacher. Safeguarding has to be a priority of course but it seems pretty offensive to suggest that trans automatically equals danger. I think we are in danger of viewing all transpeople as extremists (like those who are v vocal on Twitter) but in my experience this is not a reflection of reality. Don't get me wrong, I am still in favour of female only spaces, single sex prisons etc, but in everyday life I feel that there has to be a middle way whereby people's identities can be respected whilst ensuring safeguarding concerns are being met.

I don't think it's transphobic to correctly sex a male and not teach children to ignore their instincts or biological reality. That being said, I also don't think that the OP's son should be removed from school.

Personally I think that however this teacher (or any other) wants to navigate his way through life is up to him and he should be allowed to wear what he wants and love who he wants. Whatever he wears though, it doesn't negate the biological reality of his sex, and children shouldn't have to lie to themselves (or him) about this in order to pander to his feelings.

SimonandGarfunkel
Thats a big reach, I think people are actually more concerned with the fact the teacher is putting the pupils into a situation where they are confused and constantly in the wrong.

This.
Those who bothered to read the OP would have seen that Apparently children have been told off for addressing him as he and DS tells me that he doesn't ask him anything if he can help it because he doesn't know what to say.
So a 12 year old daren't address an adult who breaches the school's norms about names (Miss, Mr, Mrs , Ms etc) and asks them to call them a first? name and keeps quiet in a lesson (thus hindering their learning) .

Technically you don’t know this person’s true sex unless you look at his/her genitals which I’m pretty sure no one wants to do.

It feels ridiculous and pedantic to be telling this teacher they should use a certain pronoun or should be a Sir instead of a Madam. You could liken it to the fact I am married but I liked to be Ms, not Mrs thanks. In this situation it is not affecting anything else.

This really is not a black and white issue. Trans people have existed just as long as everyone else. It’s a good thing this boy is becoming aware of it. This is the world he is living. Just as long as gay people and disabled people and those with autism and different races and people wanting to (shock horror!) mix races have excised, so have trans people. They have just been ridiculed and excluded until recently. I understand the concern about increasing trans rights could erode women’s rights including in sport and safe spaces,I am not dismissing that at all. But this is not the same. It’s about being confused by the person’s gender (and I thought we all agreed gender was shit anyway?) and how to refer to this teacher. There is a difference between that and just being really transphobic.

Technically you don’t know this person’s true sex unless you look at his/her genitals which I’m pretty sure no one wants to do.

Are you seriously saying that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the sex of Rishi Sunak (for example) and your own mother?

Or that you wouldn't be able to correctly sex 99% of the world's population? How many times have you accidentally ended up in bed with a person of the opposite sex to which you are attracted?

You don't have to look at someone's genitals to know their sex. It's inbuilt into the species to be able to tell.

And I mean Rishi Sunak even if he were wearing a dress and had fake boobs and makeup on!

Now that’s an image I didn’t want in my head @Spottybluepyjamas

@BiscuitLover3678 if you were (or are) a teacher would you really tell off your students for calling you Mrs X instead of Ms X? And therefore to be too nervous to ask questions in class in case of error and subsequent consequences?

You've also ignored the history that this teacher was using they/them and now is asking for students to use a version of his first name. So not what is expected or other teachers. Children in a classroom very often use Sir or Miss as they may not know the teachers name, have forgotten it, are used to using that as a shortcut if asking a quick enquiry etc etc. Children shouldn't be made to feel that they shouldn't ask questions in case they offend this teacher and get in trouble.

This is maybe the best approach while you sort out with the school what is going, especially if all of the other teachers are addressed as Mr or Miss. I would be concerned that this teacher seems to be putting their 'brave and special' identity front and centre of the lessons.

It has always been a bit cringey when teachers want to be addressed by their first name, and it may be appropriate with A level students, when they are more mature and lessons can be a bit more of a two way process, but it starts verging on the creepy with younger pupils.

Why on earth is their first name a safeguarding issue ?

@BiscuitLover3678 i think the ds is very aware and doesn’t need to discover that fur the simple reason that some if his friends have gone down that route already.
He doesn’t need to learn to accept differences etc….

@Luckymumtotwo I’d ask the school if they could clarify the situation.
Is that ok for a teacher to be called <insert name> instead if mr, miss, mrs sait is the case fir anyone else?
Is it possible to make the pronouns clear to everyone too? I mean im sure the teacher wouldn’t want parents at parents evening to misgender them right?

It feels like this particular teacher is so worried about ‘establishing his rights’ that they are forgetting it’s chikdren they have in front of them. And it’s pretty normal fur them to make mistakes. Whether it’s in the subject they are teaching on a gender that has just changed.

I would ask the school for clarification as to how this teacher is asking to be addressed and for reassurance that if your child makes a mistake and gets it wrong that they aren't going to be in trouble.

This ^^ If teachers at the school are generally addressed with a salutation such as “Ms./Mr.” followed by their surname, there’s no obvious reason for this teacher to be addressed by their first name. They can pick a salutation they feel comfortable with and use it with their surname.
It’s much easier for everyone and will prevent any misgendering.

I’m also wondering if the school/HT is aware that the teacher is asking the pupils to call them by their name. They might not be keen if everyone else is Sir, Miss etc….

Yes, @WakingUpDistress . I’m from a family of teachers and keeping some social distance between teachers and students is generally better, according to my relatives. Especially as they’re hitting the teen years and may start questioning authority anyway.

Exactly this.

How do you know they aren't focusing on educational matters? I can't for the life of me see how making provision for a transgender teacher prevents them from doing so.