Non binary/transgender teacher

[Luckymumtotwo]

I am going to refer to the teacher as male because my child genuinely does not know how they currently identify. Sounds like they were male and then to be addressed as they/them and DS thinks might now be a transgender woman - changed name and hair - but DC is not certain.

Apparently children have been told off for addressing him as he and DS tells me that he doesn't ask him anything if he can help it because he doesn't know what to say.

Teacher has asked them to address him by a short version of his first name which I've only heard used for a female previously. DS feels awkward using it. Other teachers are not addressed by first names and usually addressed as Sir/miss.

I might ask school to revise how this teacher is addressed. Maybe "Teacher"? Not sure that works but I'd rather not have the casual use of a shortened first name where this isn't what generally happens.

My son is already used to asking people how they want to be addressed due to various identities in classmates and doesn't usually feel awkward. I think it's because it's an adult. At 12 I don't think he should have to ask the teacher.

Any adult breaking down normal boundaries is always a safeguarding issue.

Whatever is the usual way of addressing teachers should be for all teachers, there should be no special ones. That's what predators do, get friendly with kids and using first names is a huge issue when everyone else is Mr or Mrs/Miss.

Might be worth doing a safeguarding course if you aren't aware of this.

😂😂

As a teacher I get misgendered all the time, I am called ‘sir’ 2 or 3 times a week. It is normal, as is being called mum, dad and once (I still haven’t recovered) gran.

I would worry if the teacher gets upset with this which upset the students.

If all teachers in the school are known by their first name then it is fine, but only 1 teacher - that rings alarm bells.

Couldn't agree more.

There is a very dangerous and damaging rhetoric developing that all trans people are sexual predators and can't be allowed to be around children.

99.9% of men who are sexual predators manage to be sexual predators without needing to change their sex. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that expressing an interest in being trans makes you any more likely to commit a sexual or other crime towards a member of the opposite sex or a child.

Most transpeople just want to live their lives as the gender they feel themselves to be, without any fuss or special treatment. Most of them are not on social media. The public conversation has been taken over by a tiny minority of extremists whose views are not shared by the vast majority of transpeople. Most transpeople are living quiet, ordinary lives, and it is both offensive and bigoted to suggest that a trans teacher is a safeguarding issue.

Many homosexual teachers have faced similar barriers in their work, with parents believing their children will somehow be 'turned' or 'polluted' in some way by being in contact with them.

Using 'safeguarding' to excuse what is really just downright bigotry is inexcusable.

The OP needs to email the school to confirm what the teacher would like to be addressed as. Job done. I am disgusted at the people saying that this child needs to be removed from the school due to having a transgender teacher. This level of hatred really has to stop. It gets none of us anywhere.

🤣🤣. This is proof that your pupils don’t see you as a human being, @OhBeAFineGuyKissMe , you’re a “teacher,” a gender- less being with no personal identity. 🤣🤣

I expect you’re a great teacher!

Really, the issue is that this teacher is asking to be called by a version of their first name, and not a title like the rest of the teachers in the school.
This could be viewed as a potential safeguarding issue, removing boundaries etc, but in this case it is clearly an attempt to come to an acceptable compromise. The problem is, it's a bit of a clunky one..if this teacher is called by their first name, does it indicate a different kind of relationship with students? Can the other teachers choose whether they want to be known by a title or first name?
The school needs to have a very clear policy on this. The problem with Mx is that no one can pronounce it, and maybe there needs to be another way of addressing teachers across the school...eg Sensei/Teacher/ Prof/some other word for the trained adult in charge. The French used "Citizen" as in "Citizen Smith" for a while, I quite like that.
It's clear we do need gender-neutral words for a variety of reasons, both to address people and to use for pronouns ( "they " just sounds clumsy and doesn't do the job properly as doesn't distinguish between singular and plural). Personally, I am GC but don't see why we need to have separate words for Sir and Miss when we don't for Doctor or Reverend or Professor.

What people object to is that being a member of a particular gender identity group meaning that no questions are asked or allowed, and the usual rules don't apply. Which is quite clearly what is happening in this particular case. Historically we know that adults who bypass rules are a safeguarding risk. That is not the same as saying that this particular teacher is a predator or a paedophile. I doubt that the teacher is acting from any nefarious intentions, but that's not the point.

There is a very dangerous and damaging rhetoric developing that all trans people are sexual predators and can't be allowed to be around children.

There is a more dangerous rhetoric which is that if you say the magic word 'trans' you do not have to adhere to the same guidelines as everyone else.

This simply isn't true.

I am a teacher. Have been for many years. Suggesting that a trans teacher will be allowed to not abide by the same rules as everyone else because they are trans is suggesting that there is some loophole in safeguarding procedures around gender identity, which there isn't. A trans teacher does have to abide by the same guidelines as everyone else. That is a fact. It is bigotry to suggest otherwise.

It's these kind of vague and ill-informed comments hinting darkly at ways trans people are apparently able to infiltrate institutions and abuse people that are fuelling completely unnecessary hatred and division.

I'm sure it's hard enough feeling like you don't belong in your own body as it is without everyone else assuming you're out to abuse everyone you come into contact with as a result.

I think it is reasonable to ask the school for clarification stating as all other teachers called sir/miss in this situation shortened first name doesn’t feel respectful for a teacher.

In the interim could your son use Teacher or Mx surname, although to be honest I’m not sure how you pronounce Mx (mix?).

Really, the issue is that this teacher is asking to be called by a version of their first name, and not a title like the rest of the teachers in the school.

^ This. Any teacher trying to change the dynamics of their teacher-pupil relationship, for example by being on first-name terms against the norm in the school, should be instructed not to by management and, frankly, viewed with some suspicion.

I’m sure most trans people would be happy to use sir or miss. It’s the NB’s who seem to have an issue.

• I don't mean suspicion of being a sexual predator, but suspicion of not behaving professionally, and of prioritising their own agenda and self-image above the education of the children and the reasonable expectations of their employer.

No safe-guarding issue when a teacher wants to stand out from their colleagues and be called by an element of their first name meaning their have a slightly different, more informal relationship with the students?? This is already starting to break down one of the barriers that are there to protect kids (and to protect the teacher's reputation)!

Teacher is putting self above the kids and his or her colleagues. It is definitely an amber flag if not a red flag.

It also undermining the rest of the school. If the school is one where the teachers are Sir / Miss in brief, and their title and surname as their name, to have one saying , "call me Mike," would be ridiculous in any other set of circumstances and you must damn well know that @PortiasBiscuit .

I hate this faux-naivete and hectoring tone to get other people to throw-over years of social conventions that are there for damn good reasons. Go ride your hobby horses away from other people's kids.

Because the person in question doesn’t appear too sure themselves.

If indeed the teacher has asked the children to address them by a different name, this will have been approved of by the Headteacher.

In any school where a staff member is going through transition there will have been extensive discussions around how to handle this and what to communicate to staff, parents and pupils.

It seems that there has either been a failure of communication in this school, or that the OP is making this up entirely to create a thread designed to encourage people to discuss how dangerous trans people are. I must say I strongly suspect the latter.

I find it very hard to believe in our current climate with all of the information schools have been given about handling gender identity amongst staff and students that this scenario would ever be allowed to happen.

Having worked in schools for a decade, I can tell you this - there is no way a teacher in this scenario would be going around getting the children to call them by their first name without permission. They would be found out very quickly and they would be hauled over the coals. If this is a genuine post, then the teacher would only be doing this with permission from senior management. Not because they want to form a special relationship with their students and sexually abuse them, ffs.

@DelphiniumBlue
sorry to be a pedant, but the titles Citizen and Citizeness were clearly gender defined in France. Of course as even what we would regard as neuter nouns (table, chair etc) are gendered in French, so take different forms of adjectives and indeed pronouns. So the chair will be referred to as she once mentioned.

also inFrench interestingly, titles for profession take one gender, even if the practitioner is actually of the opposite sex. Bakers and doctors and school teachers are all masculine and take masculine forms of adjectives, although once established , they can then be referred as Il or Elle.

I think this just goes to show how deeply embedded the binary concept is.

suggesting that there is some loophole in safeguarding procedures around gender identity, which there isn't.

There are definitely loopholes around DBS checks. We've discussed them on this board several times.

You don't know that anything has been approved by the Headteacher. That's your assumption. Yes of course it should have been, but that doesn't mean it has been.

The advice given to the OP is to contact the school and ask for clarification. That's sensible proportionate advice.

Your insistence that a certain class of people be above doubt is worrying, @EnidSpyton

Well I bloody well hope you are not teaching my children with your 'batshittery' attitudes.

I find it very hard to believe in our current climate with all of the information schools have been given about handling gender identity amongst staff and students that this scenario would ever be allowed to happen.

Schools are waiting for clarification from the EHRC.

To date, many of them have been given the incorrect information from lobby groups like Stonewall. Claiming that pupils, for instance, should be respected to use the facilities of their choice.

Obviously, this isn't the case and Suella Braverman has already made it quite clear that schools must have sex segregated facilities, possibly in addition to a third space.

Until now, schools have been given ridiculous information, like offering their pupils the choice of a fictitious gender identity from a spectrum with Barbie at one and GI Jo at the other. Or being taught that there is such a thing as being born in the wrong body.

The 'information that schools have been given', is not fit for purpose.

@EnidSpyton I've been a teacher for over a decade too. I've seen some appalling behaviour by teachers, including senior leaders, where plenty was got away with that shouldn't have been. In the worst case, it was a religious affiliation shared between a group of teachers that shielded them from criticism until their behaviour became truly appalling. And even then it was brushed under the carpet. Perhaps that's why I'm able to believe that things may be happening that shouldn't be. And that having a particular characteristic isn't a reason to allow people to bend or break rules and standards.

@Datun all of this is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

You're talking about advice regarding how schools deal with children's gender identity, which I agree is not fit for purpose.

How schools deal with staff members who wish to transition is obviously an entirely separate issue. Let's not muddy the waters.