Graham Norton has terminated his Twitter account after attacking JK Rowling

[SwanageBay]

Well that's one less beardy man on there defending rape and death threats.

There are different waves of feminism always have been there is about four waves of feminism and in them waves are subsets so there isn’t just one kind and that’s how opinions work people have different views etc

It is no longer feminism when it's not about women

Feminism however still exists and you can tell

You have been hoodwinked

@Freespirit42 No. You are misinformed. Feminism centres female people. When it ceases to do that it isn't feminism, whatever it calls itself. As Julie Bindel says she is a feminist "not the fun kind". The fun kind includes things like sex as work. That is never female centred. All women know that.

Are you talking about the incident when a woman stole the microphone?

You mean in this video?

Here you go. Around the 1:44 mark. That person attempts to steal the microphone.

And yet, strangely, even at the most recent events Kellie Jay Keen has stated that any woman can get up and say something. Whatever they want.

You seem to be determined to misrepresent the truth here.

And again, who here on this thread is attempting to silence you? We are determined to work very hard to find out just what you are saying and to clarify. Isn't that the very opposite of silencing you?

By the way, the guidelines are quite specific about 'negative generalisations' not being allowed by anyone, regardless of whether you think you are on a 'side' or not. Not trying to silence you or tone police, but I actually want your posts to not get deleted because it is useful for readers to see the points used here.

@Freespirit42 read some feminist history if you want to talk about feminism. Otherwise to be honest you don't have the right. Without historical feminism women would not have the freedoms they do now to make these non arguments in the first place. A bit of humility would not go amiss!

If your feminism includes:

Believing that TWAW

Putting males, more often than not sex offenders and rapists, in the female prison estate because said males declare themselves 'women'

Allowing males to participate in female sports thus removing safety, fairness and competition from females

Allowing males to access and even run Rape Crisis and Refuge centres for female victims of rape and domestic violence and then state that those females who are uncomfortable with this need to 'reframe their trauma' or exclude themselves from the very services designed for them

Thinks that males who declare themselves as women should have unfettered access to female single sex spaces and services including, but not limited to, toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards, irrespective of the impact this has on females, including those females who will no longer be able to access those areas due to faith or trauma or discomfort

Thinks that female rape victims should not be allowed to request a female forensic examiner when they have been raped and that a male who declares himself a women should be entitled to carry out the procedure

Thinks that females cannot request a female HCP and when presented with a male who declares himself a woman if the female complains she is deemed transphobic

Thinks that females have no right to the basic considerations of safety, dignity, privacy and comfort

Then you are not a feminist, you care nothing for women's rights and your version of feminism is nothing more than Men's Rights Activism.

Ok. So you posted this answer :

Shall I say not making myself very clear here I have seen screen shots that trans people have showing the death threats they have also had. Kiwi farms shite was bad to the way I see it there are bad actors on both sides

To this clarify this point:

You know what I abhor death threats but let’s get this into some thing there are death threats against trans people to by the very same people that side with your side does that make me think you are all crazy nope there is extreme views.

Please explain. Who is making the threats?

Feminists?

Oh and if you gonna say that trans side is full of hate aka death threats to jk rowling which is sick then you gotta take the flack that repeatedly saying stuff that’s horrible about the trans community

Saying stuff that's horrible about the trans community what would that be then? That Transwomen are not women? Yeah that's absolutely on a par with rape and death threats and must be deserving of them.

That’s it ✊

So, let me understand here.

Who are the 'anti-trans accounts'?

Please be clear in who you are accusing of being 'anti-trans'.

Sorry, I am finding this very slow going.

Oh and seen as many trans are homosexual or bisexual none of us are homophobic I mean I do find it funny when glinner basically accused Graham Norton a gay man of being a homophobe

Are you saying that a gay man cannot be a homophobe?

Are you saying that a lesbian declaring that other lesbians who exclude males in their choices as sexual partners should 'consider how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions' is not homophobic?

That quote by the way is from Nancy Kelley who said:

"Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.'

Another thing @Freespirit42 if your feminism advocates for reducing the female sex to a subset of it's own sex class, reducing females to denigrating, de humanising terms such as birthing parent instead of mother, cervix haver, menstruator, bleeder, birthing body, person with ovaries, etc., whilst the same changes to language are not being used or imposed on males then you haven't a feminist bone in your body and are truly schilling for the MRAs because that terminology is exactly what has been used about and to women in order to enforce and enshrine second class citizen status upon them by the patriarchy.

Feminism is for and about females and only females not males in any shape or form.

That's teh trouble - I don;t trust a word coming out of the TRA side, so whilst it seems incredibly likely that some trans people have received some death threats I have no reason to suppose that it is a problem of any significance.

The Head of Inclusion of Stonewall says that there is no such things as male and female bodies. As male and female are sex classes, and homosexuality is about sex, the Head of Inclusion at Stonewall literally doesn't even believe in heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality is a thing. If you don;t even believe homosexuals exist you are massive homophobic. Please forgive me for not believing you when you say the TRA side is not homophobic.

Remarkable.

Are you now declaring that you are being 'attacked' on this thread?

This post is really quite hard to follow.

This is the Feminism Chat: Sex and Gender board. It was created as a separate board to discuss the implications and conflicts of other groups rights demands on the established rights and protections set up for all females. To be clear, all females regardless of their gender identity.

There is another board set up to discuss whatever anyone cares to post there. This was a deliberate act by MN because of many complaints by people who desperately wanted a second board all for themselves to discuss topics unrelated to Sex and Gender.

Have you visited there?

Either way, you are most welcome on this board provided you post within the talk guidelines. You are not guaranteed, as is no other poster, to have your posts left without analysis or criticism.

Personal attacks are immediately deleted if you report them. But they do need to meet the threshold for 'attack', and not just someone is hurting my feelings.

If your arguments are shown to be false or misrepresentations of the truth, why would you expect them to not be scrutinised? And some of your posts have and have been queried and discussed. Sometimes robustly. Robust discussion does not also qualify as a 'personal attack'.

Why should falsity or deliberate misrepresentations of the truth (such as saying 'the microphone was snatched of a woman who disagreed with Kellie Jay' when it was stolen.) be welcomed on any part of the internet?

Feminism that includes men is not feminism. Trans women are men by definition. Literally no-one born female is or ever has been or will be a trans woman.

I cannot speak for others, but I am increasingly not standing up to nonsense like Tory economic policy, let alone abortion rights. When truth, reality, LGB rights, whether women are allowed to organise as a group that excludes all men, and child-safeguarding are all under massive threat from misogynistic and homophobic extremists abortion rights and the economy start to look relatively trivial to me.

No one should recieve death threats

If comprehension in the trans community is anything like demonstrated here, there will need to be clarity about what is a death threat ( hint it shouldn't involve interpretation. Fir clarity - when people say TWANW they don't mean anything about the long term health of TW )

If someone shares you a death threat made to them it is inappropriate to dismiss or trivialise them or say things about other death threats other than perhaps " so and so has received similar and may be able to help ". Correct response would be "that's terrible "

Yes indeed Joody.

The fun kind of feminist seem to be all about enabling the exploitation of women and girls. It is yet another aspect of 'identity politics'.

@Freespirit42 youre reminding me of when Ash Sakhar
bleated about Julie Bindel never having done anything for womens rights because she couldn’t find anything on a Twitter search 😂

the real threat to transwomen and trans men are violent men.

To be fair, that statement could mean that Kelly thinks that lesbians who refuse to date trans men are bigots. Given that "trans" is pretty much meaningless, and a trans man could be indistinguishable from any other woman, I make her right.

What has she said that specifically relates to the rights of a subset of men to date lesbians?

YouSirNeighMmmm

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

I believe it was a statement issued in response to an article about males pressuring lesbians into sex. There was a lot of discussion around it at the time, maybe you will find what you are looking for. I am off to work.

Ha ha! You know you've lost the plot when you go onto a feminist board and tell feminists that feminism centres men.

Yes, it really is. Aggressively stating bollocks that gets deleted, isn't really an argument.

Altho, I'm still thoroughly enjoying the fact of these that people claiming that convicted male sex offenders being given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence, is ... feminist.

The question is - who are abortion rights for? Which sex class?

How is it remotely helpful to the fight for abortion rights to be unable to define accurately and clearly those who may, will, need or want to access an abortion?

You may as well say All people need the right to an abortion, it's fucking stupid.

. It halves the death rates from botched abortion for example making them appear less significant