Trans-identifying people seeking extra rights

[SimpleName83]

Just that, really, Most people accept their sex, date of birth, place of birth. It is an historical, factual document of their birth.

Trans-identifying people seek to change a factual documentation of their birth.

That's not equality. That is transpeople being given extra rights to rewrite history.

And they are they ones saying they're oppressed??!!

And do you think men who really are sex predators are going to wait for "permission" to enter women's toilets and go through all the trouble of becoming trans? There's nothing to stop an abusive predatory man just entering women's toilets regardless if the law permits him to or not.

and we used to be able to scream, shout and get him out. Now, all he needs to say is ‘but I’m a woman’ and the woman screaming would be the one vilified. Why are you so invested in denying womens rights to single sex spaces @MargaritaPie ?

actually, TW do not have the legal right to access womens spaces. They can be discriminated in by sex exemptions, with or without a GRC, it is SW who insisted that they should be allowed in. It’s why SW tried to have the EHRC downgraded. Because the EHRC confirmed there is a right to single sex spaces. And SW lost.

Transwomen experience transmisogyny - the double whammy of transphobia and misogyny
Nonsense, trans women may be discriminated against by some people but they will never experience misogyny because they are not female.

And do you think men who really are sex predators are going to wait for "permission" to enter women's toilets and go through all the trouble of becoming trans? There's nothing to stop an abusive predatory man just entering women's toilets regardless if the law permits him to or not.

I know you think this sounds like a good argument. But in reality, what you are saying is that all safeguarding is useless, so why have it.

Arguing to remove safeguarding is not what reasonable people do.

Yes @ZuttZeVootEeeVo wonder why the TRA are so desperate to dismantle safeguarding…. @MargaritaPie any clues?

If you think a post expressing an opinion on an anonymous forum constitutes discrimination and breaches the Human Rights Act then you have no understanding of what discrimination actually means.

So you wouldn't be comfortable with any transwoman in the ladies toilets? And if you challenged them and they said 'but I am female on my birth certificate, so I'm allowed in here and that makes you a massive bigot', you would be ok with that?

And do you think men who really are sex predators are going to wait for "permission" to enter women's toilets and go through all the trouble of becoming trans? There's nothing to stop an abusive predatory man just entering women's toilets regardless if the law permits him to or not.

'Look ladies, you're gonna get raped anyway so you might as well just remove any safeguarding that could be in place and let in any male who wants to come in'.

I believe this has been referred to on Twitter as 'the worst argument on the Internet'.

Anyway, what's 'all the trouble of becoming trans' in Sturgeons utopia where any man can legally become female by filling out a couple of forms?

These comments 🙄

I so wish people had cared this much about sexual abuse, women's sports, safeguarding children and dignity for female prisoners before it became fun to attack trans people day and night...

I’m very much of the ‘live your life how you want’ school of thought but I don’t think you should be allowed to change your birth certificate. It is a record of the facts as it is at that time.
What if you have an August 31st baby? You couldn’t change that to September 1st. It doesn’t really matter but will have a huge impact on the life of the baby.

A birth certificate is the record of a fact. It might be a fact that you don’t like. It might be a fact that causes you difficulty. But you can’t change it.

Errr….. what makes you think people didn’t?

They did. It’s just that men didn’t notice or care.

Sex reassignment is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act.

Activists have now watered down transsexual to transgender. Transgender simply meaning self-IDing as the opposite sex.

Transsexuals are abused by TRAs as "truscum" for believing that gender dysmorphia is key to being trans.

You didn't get males in female sporting categories when the requirement was for full sexual reassignment surgery.

If we went back to rights for transsexual people, instead of transgender people a lot of these problems just go away.

Quite bizarre to post this on a feminist board, don’t you think?

I think you are obviously another poster who has prejudiced views about who posts here. You obviously think that posters here ‘didn’t care’. Or is it just projection?

What makes you think any of these self identified trans people are actually trans?

Why are the males in female sports unwilling to take cross-sex hormones or have any surgery?

What makes you believe that a convicted liar who is in prison is telling the truth when he says that he is a woman?

I so wish people had cared this much about sexual abuse, women's sports, safeguarding children and dignity for female prisoners before it became fun to attack trans people day and night...

Where have trans people been attacked on this thread?

I must have missed it?

Yeah it's strange how people got all pissed off about males encroaching on these things isn't it?

Anyway, what makes you think that the likes of JKR, Julie Bindel, Jean Hatchet, Lisa Muggeridge, or the posters on Mumsnet feminism section didn't care about these things before?

They did, it's just that some men are only just noticing because women caring about women's rights and safeguarding children is inconvenient for them.

Minded to mention the name of Barbie Karshadian here. Changed name and terrible crimes. Very young and now in (womens) prison in Ireland.

I find this question difficult to answer because honestly for me it does depend on how well people pass.

I know of a trans woman (a friend of a friend) and honestly I was surprised when my friend told me. I wouldn't bat an eyelid seeing them in the womens loo.

But I dont think I could bring myself to challenge a non passing TW in the loos either who was clearly trying hard to pass. That just seems unkind. But inside I WOULD feel very uncomfortable with seeing a clearly male person like Karen White where it's just so obvious. I'd probably leave, rightly or wrongly.

But I would certainly feel uncomfortable if someone like Buck Angel sauntered into the changing room with me alone, would you not? The fact that his BC says female wouldn't make me feel any better because most people's brains will just take people at face value.

The protected characteristic of gender reassignment in the EqA is wider that 'full reassignment surgery', it includes intending to transition, and doesn't include any diagnosis.

Even if there was a requirement to have 'full reassignment surgery', we would still have these issues, because surgery doesn't nor change a person's sex.

So your fear of being unkind overrides your feelings of discomfort. Why is unkind to challenge a male in a female space? Why do their feelings trump yours or that of any other woman?

why would you be upset if Buck came in but not a TW? Would you tell Buck to leave?

Wtf 🤣🤣🤣

Aside from the practical safeguarding concerns of breaking the chain of a person’s life history, the concept that womanhood is a mental feature not a bodily fact affects every single woman (old meaning) in fundamental ways.

It redefines us by imposing a mentality we may not in fact have.

It redefines our rights and protections as no longer reserved for female people, to balance the sexisim we experience, but open to anyone who has this vague, handwavy mental womanness.

It redefines crimes that are overwhelmingly committed by male people as also female crimes, which affects which protections and risks society considers when mixing the sexes.

It takes away our opportunities to win our own sports.

It obscures limitations to female progression when the first X, or highest ranking Y, was actually born male.

It affects us because it imposes a fantasy of womanhood as more consequential to how society treats us than the fact of our bodies when this is not true.

It affects us because if you can't acknowledge sex, you can't fight sexism.

In Scottish prisons, half of the trans prisoners changed their gender after their conviction.

In Scottish prisons, almost all the trans prisoners change back to their original gender when they are released.

The SPS follow a self id policy for placing inmates. No need for a GRC.

The rise of self id in particular has lead to predatory men (of whom sex offenders are disproportionately represented) using a system, under which they cannot be questioned or denied without screams of 'transphobia', to get access to vulnerable women. 80% of Scottish female prisoners have suffered a previous head injury, mostly due to domestic violence.

I find it bizarre that people don't care about it.

And yes, strangely enough, I cared and still care about all the things you mention. Don't you?

But how do you know if a male in the toilets is genuinely 'a transwoman clearly trying to pass' or a male who is there for other predatory reasons? Karen White wore a wig and a dress etc, what would make you think he wasn't just a transwoman trying to pass? How do we know?

And to be honest, I'm with you, for everything I say on here, in a real life situation I wouldn't challenge a transwoman in the female toilets. Because I don't like confrontation, and I'm scared of the repercussions. That is called 'conditioning'. Men rely on female conditioning to carry out crimes against women all the time. They rely on the fact that women won't speak up, even when it's done in plain sight, that women are too kind, or too scared, or don't want to ruin someone's reputations etc etc.