Trans-identifying people seeking extra rights

[SimpleName83]

Just that, really, Most people accept their sex, date of birth, place of birth. It is an historical, factual document of their birth.

Trans-identifying people seek to change a factual documentation of their birth.

That's not equality. That is transpeople being given extra rights to rewrite history.

And they are they ones saying they're oppressed??!!

And let’s not even start on the likes of “Dylan” and his “day whatthefuckever of being a GIRL” a grown MAN playing at being a little girl, speaking at women’s conferences and warping the minds of impressionable young people. Reducing womanhood to the stereotypes of handbag shopping and lipstick, prancing around in heels dancing in next to nothing whilst telling the world we must accept he’s a girl. The world is rotting from the core because we have given our much fought-for rights to men, given the oppressors the badge of the oppressed and must now bow down, shut up and be kind whilst they invade every aspect of female safety.

When was the last time you had to show your birth certificate to access a changing room or sports team? I dont even know where mine is frankly.

Is it that unfathomable that it might just make someone feel better about themselves?

It's often not required and taken on trust or appearances - BUT, if it comes down to it, it's always there as a final way of ultimately proving something and forcing somebody who, going on all appearances and circumstances, disagrees with you, to back down.

I agree that most of us probably don't know where our BCs are (although you can always get an official copy of it for a fee, if it's needed); but I would venture that those who have been allowed to retrospectively change their BC probably DO know where it is, and carry it around with them, to 'prove' what they got it changed for in the first place - in the same way that you always keep your passport to hand when abroad, but never give it a second thought when you're staying long-term in your own country. My sex was recorded at birth and I've never doubted or rejected it - nor has anybody ever suspected me of being the opposite sex - so why would I need quick access to a document to prove the obvious and undisputed?

It might make people feel better about themselves, but that is absolutely not the purpose of a BC, which is an official factual document. It might make you feel better if your BC said that you were born in Sydney or Malibu, but if you were actually born in Rhyl or Slough, you just have to live with that. Nobody is stopping you from later moving to Malibu - but you were still not born there.

Much more seriously, your parents may end up being perpetually abusive to you throughout your childhood, to the point that you, very understandably, end up hating them and having nothing more to do with them from the second that you turn 18. You may long for the day that you can finally go and spit on their graves; but you still cannot ever change your BC so that it says your lovely Aunt & Uncle were your biological parents instead of them.

"Erm....why do you think we have single sex provision in certain situations in the first place"

It depends on the country. Some people complain about Unisex facilities in the UK but in some countries (eg in Scandinavia) Unisex facilities are actually the norm and everyone just goes about their day.

Only because stonewall et al misrepresented the law to a lot of institutions. There is a provision for single sex spaces, but SW told everyone this was illegal, which is why the TRA are raging about the EHRC getting A status. Because the EHRC confirmed there is a right to single sex soaces, which would exclude TW from female soaces.

There is nothing in the EA about which toilet transwomen can use. Toilets are not a legally bound thing.

What I will say is that if a male is in a facility where that male knows the females around them are anxious and uncomfortable, and doesn't give a shit, then that says a lot about the male in question.

I still think third spaces are an option that need further exploration.

So if unisex soaces are so wonderful, why is Amnesty international campaigning for single sex provision for women in India, Pakistan and countries in Africa?

Partially x-posted with Shakenotslurred.

What, they have 'unisex' prisons in Scandanvia? 'Unisex' refuge facilities? Wow, how progressive.....!

The fact that Nicola Sturgeon is determined to push these reforms through when there is clear evidence that some men abuse this to gain access to vulnerable women and children is simply baffling to me.

I have no respect for any woman who fails to see what is happening right before their eyes.

Allowing self ID favours men at the cost of women's rights.

There is no spin on this that makes it work for women. None.

Agree with the last bit of your post re third spaces definitely.

But even if TW weren't allowed to change their sex on their BC, how is anybody going to stop a passing trans woman using the womens toilets without a genital check? And what about passing trans men?

Doesn't seem to stop people constantly advising women on here not to put their children's bio dads on their BCs!

So we say only passing transpeople can access the opposite sex spaces? Ok, who defines what ‘passes’ means? What standard? Or do we just say single sex spaces are single sex no exceptions?

In real life, very few transwomen 'pass'. And anyway, according to TRAs, passing shouldn't have anything to do with whether you are granted access or not. So all transwomen should be allowed to use the ladies, whether they are Danielle Muscato or Paris Lees.

Plus, if everyone knew that everyone was just using the correct facility for their sex, no one would need to worry about it anyway.

So Buck Angel in the ladies then?

Its the trans paradox -

Birth certificates are practically useless, we don't use them in day to day life. Yet its a human rights issue when some people cannot change their birth certificate.

We just can't know someone's sex by sight alone, and what is sex anyway? But, again some people need to change their sex, even if they have no clue what it is, and need the NHS to remove their breasts and change their genitals because its distressing to be in the wrong body.

Single sex spaces are silly and prudish. Yet it's vitally important that transwomen be in the same 'gender' spaces as women because they are not safe with people of a different 'gender'.

Transwomen experience transmisogyny - the double whammy of transphobia and misogyny, yet women who support them cannot think of a single example of when they, as women, experience misogyny. Or when it does happen its not that big a deal. Therefore misogyny is worse for people who are not seen as women.

@TheSmallestOneWasMadeline yes. Or would you prefer Karen White in the ladies? I know one of these people is more of a risk of assaulting or raping someone. Clue, it’s not the female to male

Ive seen videos of buck which prove that they are indeed female.

Yes. Completely agree. No-one can ever change their sex. Allow people to live how they want, wear what they want, call themselves what they want, but the reality is that if you are born male you will always be male. I'm so tired of having to pretend this isn't basic biological fact.

It really annoys me when I see people using transmen in an attempt to gotcha the rights of men to enter into single sex spaces.

Men are not statistically at risk from females in their spaces. If Buck wants to use the men's that's up to Buck.

It is men trying to force themselves into women's spaces that causes this problem in the first place.

The fact that some women present as men does not entitle men to enter spaces where they can actually harm women. There are obviously now increasing examples of men doing just that.

Enough. Women matter.

I'd prefer neither in the ladies to be honest because I wouldn't believe either was a woman. But I still don't give an arse what it says on either of their birth certificates.

Yes!

Gender ideology is rife with contradictions.

Another one is being trans is absolutely not a mental illness and it's offensive to suggest it is. It is akin to being gay. But if you do not allow 12 year old children access to powerful drugs which will halt the development their perfectly normally body, and put them on a lifelong medicalised pathway of drugs and surgery possibly affecting their bones, brain development, heart, sexual function and fertility.....then they will kill themselves.

On what basis would you not believe Karen White was a woman? Because he had raped someone? What if Karen was in your toilet and you didn't know 'she' had raped someone? Would you be ok with it then? What if Karen told you their birth certificate said female and therefore Karen had as much right as you to be in the toilet?

"The fact that Nicola Sturgeon is determined to push these reforms through when there is clear evidence that some men abuse this to gain access to vulnerable women and children is simply baffling to me."

Transpeople can already legally use the toilets/other facilities of the sex they identify as with or without GRA reform, that isn't what it's about.

And do you think men who really are sex predators are going to wait for "permission" to enter women's toilets and go through all the trouble of becoming trans? There's nothing to stop an abusive predatory man just entering women's toilets regardless if the law permits him to or not.

On the basis that I have eyes

Transpeople can already legally use the toilets/other facilities of the sex they identify as with or without GRA reform, that isn't what it's about.

They shouldn't be able to legally, that's what the Eq Single sex exemptions are for.

But we're not just talking about toilets here, and you know it.

Women in rape crisis centres which are run by men who identify as women telling them to 'redefine their trauma'.

Women being raped and sexually abused in prison by inmates who only identified as women AFTER conviction.

Lesbian's being called sexual racists for not accepting penises in their dating pool.

The whole push to centre the rights of the male in Scotland at the expense of women is as plain as daylight.

Sturgeon is enabling it.