Trans-identifying people seeking extra rights

[SimpleName83]

Just that, really, Most people accept their sex, date of birth, place of birth. It is an historical, factual document of their birth.

Trans-identifying people seek to change a factual documentation of their birth.

That's not equality. That is transpeople being given extra rights to rewrite history.

And they are they ones saying they're oppressed??!!

Well the human rights act says everybody has the right to not be discriminated against.
I have unfortunately seen many posts that have discriminated against trans people on this forum.
As soon as you merely mention the word trans, so many assumptions are made.
I have seen children being depicted as sex offenders purely for the word trans.

I wholeheartedly believe that everybody is entitiled to hold their own views and opinions no matter which side of the fence you fall. And I have seen some opinions and views on this forum that do not align with my own, but they are presented respectfully and without prejudice.
It would be wrong however to deny that there are also a minority who do discriminate, which does go against the human rights act.

Like with any topic, some people argue fairly and respectfully, and some just have no boundaries.

I feel passionately for the environment, yet I’m not throwing soup on a van gough or gluing myself to a train. Because I have respect for people and things.
Many lose sight of this both in real life and with the language they use online.

I don't get why they make such a big deal about this. It's a BIRTH certificate. It records your details at the time of your birth. Sure, change it on any current documents where sex is recorded but why change this?

As soon as you merely mention the word trans, so many assumptions are made.
I have seen children being depicted as sex offenders purely for the word trans.

have you? Where? Please could you show this?

Many lose sight of this both in real life and with the language they use online.

yes, like the TRA sending rape, death threats and abuse to women online, and showing up at meetings of women discussing their rights. Didn’t one TRA just get shown screaming abuse at a baby? Tell me again how transpeople are oppressed and victimised….

Nobody has accused my daughter of having extra rights than anybody else to amend her birth certificate and change history.

What additional rights has that change given your daughter, though?

There is such a significant difference to changing parental marital status to changing sex and name. I would argue the two types of changes are not comparable.

Prejudice at its finest.

I can’t show it unfortunately as mumsnet themselves removed the comments for being offensive.
I can state it happened though, and for mentioning the word trans, a child was automatically prejudiced as a sex offender on multiple occasions.
Im a tolerant person but fuck me, let’s not pretend that isn’t happening.

So it’s a case of ‘trust me, I can’t show you but just trust me’. I’ll say bollockd did this happen. It’s like all the ‘transphobic abuse’ which never happens on here that no one can ever prove but honest guv it did happen.

Seems fair enough! No skin off your nose is it?

In response to the second part of this, Trans people are being victimised when they are abused and discriminated against for being just that. I’m not talking about trans people who are activists or also behaving like that. It’s happening unprovoked.

The point you raise about TRA sending death threats and abusive messages (which have also been directed to trans people) just cements my point that there is extreme behaviour on both sides of the fence that absolutely isn’t ok and massively crosses a line.

I think the difference with the behaviour towards the trans community is that a lot of that behaviour is unprovoked and discriminatory (purely because they identify as trans).

Wheras the TRA are not targeting all women, or a specific group. They seem to target anybody that disagrees with them. (Obviously this is just as awful and in terms of abuse it’s exactly the same, but one is discrimination and the other isn’t, and to live free from discrimination is a human right.)
At the end of the day I’ve never received a death threat just for being a woman. But I know that happens to trans people.

ive seen transphobic abuse

but its deleted because mumsnet and the vast majority of its users don’t tolerate it

some of it is posted in bad faith as ‘proof’ that mumsnet is transphobic for screenshots

but no, I don’t believe anyone has said that a child was a sex offender because they were trans

Wait til you find out about Trans Friendly DBS procedures.

Her surname was obviously changed at the same time. Allowing her to “rewrite the history” of her birth.
Which was the point I was replying to.
She doesn’t have any more rights than anybody else though

I would really like someone to explain why a trans person can change their sex on their birth certificate, so that a person with a penis and testicles who started 'identifying as a woman' in their twenties could have their birth certificate changed so that it would say they were born female.

But another person could not get their birth certificate changed so that it said they were born in a different place? What if, for example, someone was born in the UK to Irish parents who moved back to Ireland when that person was a baby. That person grew up in Ireland, with Irish family, with no real connection to the UK. They are Irish. They would not be allowed to change their birth certificate to say they were born in Ireland because that's not what happened. It would be a lie, a fiction.

The GRA is a very strange law to begin with really, there is nothing else like it is there? And to be able to make such a huge change on an important legal record with pretty much no gatekeeping, as proposed with GRA reform just seems crazy to me?

I suppose it would depend on the definition of ‘transphobic abuse’. I’d we are talking actual posts demanding the death and abuse of transpeople, I haven’t seen any, but if we go by the TRA definition of transphobic abuse, I E women existing, then yeah, this site Is rife with it.

Well the human rights act says everybody has the right to not be discriminated against.

There are also laws in this country that allow discrimination under certain circumstances.

Namely, when there is the potential to harm another group.

I have unfortunately seen many posts that have discriminated against trans people on this forum.

There will be many posts that ‘discriminate’ against transitioned males on this forum. For the reason that the law has those provisions where discriminations can be made.

If you are posing these discussions as ‘discrimination’, well that just shows that there are conflicts to be resolved between the rights of different groups.

Are you denying there are conflicts between the rights of females and the demands from some transitioned male?

As soon as you merely mention the word trans, so many assumptions are made.

That is your own prejudice underlying that statement. Many people on this board have ‘trans’ people they love in their every day life. Usually regular posters are quite specific in their posts and language used.

I have seen children being depicted as sex offenders purely for the word trans.

This is quite the over reach. Mostly posts centre around the needs of female children and their right to safety and dignity.

However, are you now saying that children cannot be sex offenders? Are you saying that any group of males has a lower risk when looking at safeguarding than the wider male population?

And are you saying that male and female segregation where it currently exists for children should be abandoned?

Rather than attempting to vilify posts on this board, maybe make some well thought out suggestions that work toward a solution.

There’s one example. Which is what you asked for.
You can choose not to believe me and deny it happens here.
But at the end of the day mumsnet agreed the comments were vile enough to remove.

At the end of the day I’ve never received a death threat just for being a woman. But I know that happens to trans people.

I have. And rape threats. And it's not just a threat, 2 women a week are killed because they are women, show me a single trans woman who has been murdered?

Right. So she cannot then access the opposite sexes single sex spaces?

She cannot just not mention a name that may be associated with crimes in a DBS check?

She cannot play sport in a category that excludes her. For instance, if she was an adult she could not play for the under 16 team?

As I said, for this discussion the two changes are not comparable.

Although i agree with you that the words ‘transphobic abuse’ quite often mean nothing

i have also seen very nasty comments which have been deleted….whether the posts are made by shit stirrers, transphobic posters (because quite obviously this forum does have homophobes, transphobes, racists, misogynists etc) or those hunting for screenshots and reduced to having to create their own

Do i think this is a transphobic forum….no not in the slightest

has it had (deleted) posts that were transphobic….yes

I think this sums the whole thing up logically and clearly. Your physical biology doesn't dictate what you can do, where you can go, what you wear, think or like to do.

(Unless you're female, in which case you're excluded from various areas of society, officially and unofficially.)

Are trans people abused? Sometimes. Are trans people physically attacked? Sometimes. Do some people struggle to deal with the concept of being trans? Yes. But this doesn't mean trans people have fewer rights. I know several MtF trans people, a couple of them are deeply annoying pretentious idiots, the others are not. I avoid spending time with the annoying pretentious ones not because they are trans, but because they are annoying pretentious idiots. I'm not transphobic, I just don't enjoy the company of fuckwits.

Dysmorphia is first and foremost a mental health issue, it manifests in all manner of ways. If I decided I was a giraffe, all the tattooing and cosmetic surgery in the world wouldn't make me an actual giraffe, but if said tattooing and surgery made me feel more comfortable in my skin and reduced my mental stress, then that's ok. But I still wouldn't be a giraffe, and shouldn't be allowed to live in the giraffe enclosure at the local zoo.

I see hate poured all over people like JKR, threats of literal violence, because she speaks the truth, and I'm fucking done with it.

But at the end of the day mumsnet agreed the comments were vile enough to remove

nope

photos of deleted posts is not evidence that those posters said anything vile

especially on this board

well arent you the lucky one @sashh I’m sure all those women who have are just bouncing with joy for you.

Trans people are being victimised when they are abused and discriminated against for being just that

Really?
In the UK?

How so?

Unless victimisation and abuse is having to respond to women who are saying that our rights to single sex spaces matter?

In the UK there are specific laws to prevent discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment and anyone who is victimised for raising a concern would be entitled to further compensation at law. I'm really surprised, if this is so common place, it is not frequently reported in the press.

When are abused and discriminated against for just being women. All the time.

Why do you believe that not to be true?

True. I git a post deleted because I said a poster might not have been posting in good faith…