Trans-identifying people seeking extra rights

[SimpleName83]

Just that, really, Most people accept their sex, date of birth, place of birth. It is an historical, factual document of their birth.

Trans-identifying people seek to change a factual documentation of their birth.

That's not equality. That is transpeople being given extra rights to rewrite history.

And they are they ones saying they're oppressed??!!

And calling a person cis is enough to be a deletion. This does not make the point you think it does.

So they were deleted?

You are accusing a forum for hate, when that hate gets deleted?

Of course bad faith posters exist! No one denies that. By the way, do you know how many bad faith posters post on this board with the intention to produce screenshots for ‘proving’ hate exists on this board? It is hourly some weeks.

Please post statements that have not been deleted of the points you have made.

So are you saying posters should be allowed to call people whatever they like @lifeturnsonadime ?

On what planet is me highlighting that there are people on this forum who see the word trans and accuse children of being sex offenders straight away because they identify as trans - the same as me denying that any children could possibly be sex offenders.

Do you always twist peoples words like that?

What I said was that there are people here who can and will see “trans” and accuse innocent children of being sex offenders for no reason other than they identify as trans.

How you jumped to me denying child crime I don’t know. But it doesn’t make it ok to accuse random innocent children of terrible things.

Thats like me accusing you of being a terrorist. And when you take offence to it, I’ll say to you, hey are you denying terrorism even exists?

Its just ridiculous.
And the whole “it’s ok to discriminate to protect from harm to another group” is open to interpretation isn’t it. I don’t think it justifies this kind of behaviour towards children.

No, I think there is confusion with the quote I was responding to the person who posted deletion messages as examples of transphobic abuse.

I was trying to point out that TRAs are just as likely to be deleted for breaking site rules than women trying to defend our rights.

I prefer a civil discussion!

Me too. Sorry my mistake. I too prefer civil discussion.

Well that’s impossible isn’t it unfortunately because mumsnet removes abusive posts. And I have nothing to prove. I’m not a liar. If you don’t believe that people say those things it’s no skin off my nose.
You can obviously take it up with mumsnet if you care that much. I’m sure they wouldn’t lie

What I said was that there are people here who can and will see “trans” and accuse innocent children of being sex offenders for no reason other than they identify as trans.

I'm calling bullshit on this.

It is adults who have proven themselves to be sex offenders who have trans identities that has been pointed out on this site. I have NEVER seem anyone suggest that child who identifies as trans is likely to be a sex offender.

I wonder if this is an objection to women wanting children to have single sex spaces on school trips and other residential stays?

I am trying to work out whether the post refers to legal discrimination under the law, or otherwise.

Because I also thought that the current discrimination laws in the UK were strong enough to protect trans people from discrimination. They are certainly deemed strong enough to protect females … maybe they are seeking asymmetrical protections rather than pushing for all discrimination laws to be tested and applied properly.

I'm surprised you've never been threatened with death just for being a woman. I have, lots. I don't think it's that unusual.

As for trans people being discriminated against just for being trans. I disagree that's the case.

Trans people who don't try and impinge on women's rights, either in sports or in their access of single sex spaces I don't believe they're discriminated or judged in the slightest. All my trans friends would never dream of making women uncomfortable by using the wrong sex facilities.

Trans people who try and overcome these boundaries, well yes I've seen women say no.

You can't really say that denying a trans woman access to female sports is discrimination though. They're not being denied because they're trans, they're being denied because they're male.

No there was nothing mentioned about school trips or residential stays. The poster accused child of incest and being a sex offender because of the term “ trans girl”.
Easy to say this is bullshit, but I’m not making that up.
Im happy for mumsnet to check the deleted posts as what I said is true and without exaggeration. It does unfortunately exist here.

The minority that behave like this completely destroy any potential progress and compromise because they just turn up to fuel the fire.

I might not agree with some other members of this forum, but my experience so far is valid as are my balanced views and empathy for those who hold opposing views. I can see your views are valid too. But sadly not in cases like these which do happen and fuel hate from all sides.

Well that’s impossible isn’t it unfortunately because mumsnet removes abusive posts. And I have nothing to prove. I’m not a liar. If you don’t believe that people say those things it’s no skin off my nose.

You can obviously take it up with mumsnet if you care that much. I’m sure they wouldn’t lie

No one is calling you a liar. Did you read my post? I actually said no one denies that abusive posts get posted… and deleted.

If you are claiming that abusive and discriminatory posts don’t get deleted and ‘exist’ on Mumsnet, please post that evidence.

I doubt you will find any posters on this board who will disagree that posts that are clearly abusive should not be deleted.

We are asking if you have any that still exist that show that those posts indicate that MN boards are generally abusive?

You made the comment about discrimination being posted here all the time. Are you including those abusive posts in that statement too?

No mumsnet are very good in my experience of removing abusive posts.
I have seen a large number of abusive posts but it’s a large and diverse forum so I couldn’t and wouldn’t say it was “generally abusive”. I’m just highlighting that it exists in a way that is unprovoked and towards children, which I think is important.

So after this epic derail, did we ever get to the point of which rights trans people think they are being denied that everyone else has, and what rights they want that no one else has.

so far we have….
Transpeople can hide previous names on a DBS check when no one else can
transpeople are allowed to access spaces that no one else of their sex can.

You can't really say that denying a trans woman access to female sports is discrimination though. They're not being denied because they're trans, they're being denied because they're male.

Technically it is discrimination based on sex.

So much discussion focuses on discrimination only being negative. There can be examples of positive discrimination too, such as spaces for people with a protected characteristic. Perfectly legal and moral.

However, often when people use ‘discrimination’ they refer to the negative impact. So, yes. Males are discriminated against by them not being able to access female sporting categories.

The poster accused child of incest and being a sex offender because of the term “ trans girl”.
Easy to say this is bullshit, but I’m not making that up.

There may have been one post, I don't know, I didn't see it. Thank goodness Mumsnet deleted it.

This was your original point -

What I said was that there are people here who can and will see “trans” and accuse innocent children of being sex offenders for no reason other than they identify as trans.

Which strongly implies that multiple 'people' on mumsnet who hold this belief. This is what I called bullshit on. You could have chosen to say 'a poster' which has a different meaning.

Or are you holding ALL women concerned about women's rights to account on the basis of one bad apple?

Are you saying because there was one person who posted something transphobic about children NO women have the right to discourse?

”women saying no” isn’t discrimination though, that’s women exercising their rights.

I find it odd that you started your post by finding it odd I don’t get death threats for being a woman, saying that you do, but you can’t handle the notion that unprovoking trans people also receive abuse just for the group they fit into.

It very much happens. And no, not just to the ones that push for womens spaces, it happens merely for being trans in the same way you say it happens to you for being a woman.

lifeturnsonadime

Yes. I was about to post something similar myself.

The people here read as an indication of a generalisation about this board. Hence why so many questioned and commented.

But beyond had sought to clarify that it is deleted and not prevalent.

No because I’m not discriminatory to women because of an abusive few.
Don’t accuse me of things I have not said.

I don't understand why anyone that isn't trans would give a shit about this. Who cares what it says on someone else's birth certificate? I can understand the concerns around trans people in sports and womens spaces but worrying about this just seems daft given that if will affect you in literally no way at all but will make a trans person's life a little bit less difficult.

"At the end of the day I’ve never received a death threat just for being a woman. But I know that happens to trans people."

I have. I've received death threats from abusive men for being a woman.
In the UK how many women are murdered?

Because it is used to create identification that then feeds into allowing access into female safe spaces and sports (if testing is not carried out. And it is not at most levels, but I could be wrong there).

So if this change won’t affect anything like access to sports or the opposite sexes spaces, what is the point? Why would a trans person bother changing their birth certificate if it gave them no changes to their everyday life, such as using the spaces designated for their birth sex?

Which other "marginalised groups scream abuse and death threats against those whose opinions may differ?

I find it really odd that you had to do that. If someone in the future is researching your family tree then surely her name at birth and your marital status form part of that.
Also she now has no proof, should she ever need it, that her birth name was different.