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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The SDP is alive and thriving — and it doesn't believe TWAW

68 replies

pattihews · 11/10/2022 09:31

Is the SDP the party many of us have been looking for?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c8bb78e8-48c9-11ed-8b55-aaf85c581598?shareToken=ffbf0b3d664619ebd19a2a194c7c4458

OP posts:
Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 10:20

How far would you go? Is there anything that a party who doesn't believe that TWAW could do that would put you off them?

ErrolTheDragon · 13/10/2022 10:27

Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 10:20

How far would you go? Is there anything that a party who doesn't believe that TWAW could do that would put you off them?

Well, afaik UKIP was the one party who in previous elections said they didn't believe TWAW. I don't remember anyone here therefore supporting them.

ginnybag · 13/10/2022 10:37

Not sure about leaving the EHRC, or the married families thing, but they're on to something with the rest of it, I think. They're certainly closer to what I'd want than any of rest of them

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/10/2022 10:42

I am aware of the report and aware of the impact it had on my life as a black woman. I'm not here to debate the existence of structural racism just as I'm sure most white woman don't want to debate the existence of structural sexism.

I feel like some (not all) GC feminists are prepared to throw black women under a bus in the name of the trans issue. Happy to use the fact that Muslim women can't use spaces with trans women in them when it suits their agenda but have no issue with denying that they are oppressed due to their race when it suits them.

I'm a white woman of mixed background and from poor, working-class origins and I stand with you, Lilith.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 13/10/2022 10:48

I joined a year or so ago after despairing of any of the major parties. They pretty much represent where I am now, shame they don't have many candidates.

Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 11:00

Well, afaik UKIP was the one party who in previous elections said they didn't believe TWAW. I don't remember anyone here therefore supporting them

Me neither but I think they might do if they stood at the next election.

I'm a white woman of mixed background and from poor, working-class origins and I stand with you, Lilith.

Thank you @YetAnotherSpartacus

drwitch · 13/10/2022 11:22

Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 11:00

Well, afaik UKIP was the one party who in previous elections said they didn't believe TWAW. I don't remember anyone here therefore supporting them

Me neither but I think they might do if they stood at the next election.

I'm a white woman of mixed background and from poor, working-class origins and I stand with you, Lilith.

Thank you @YetAnotherSpartacus

I agree with you both

drwitch · 13/10/2022 11:33

The SDP are trying to get that left on economics but socially conservative bit of the electorate; I think they may have a surge in support as the current Tory party has (after toying with them in 2017 and 2019) has clearly abandoned them.
But they do not represent me. - They accept that men and women are different but mainly because they think they should do different things; to me there is a racist tinge to their nativist views and their economics is bit crap

pattihews · 13/10/2022 12:42

Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 11:00

Well, afaik UKIP was the one party who in previous elections said they didn't believe TWAW. I don't remember anyone here therefore supporting them

Me neither but I think they might do if they stood at the next election.

I'm a white woman of mixed background and from poor, working-class origins and I stand with you, Lilith.

Thank you @YetAnotherSpartacus

I don't think, having posted in this forum for years, there would be much support for UKIP because it's populist and right-wing and most of us here seem to be broadly left-of-centre and wary of populism and other movements where people get swept up in emotion and part company with reality and evidence. Gender ideology would be one of those populist movements. GC women seem to me to be rational and evidence and science-based.

OP posts:
Lilithslove · 13/10/2022 12:56

pattihews · 13/10/2022 12:42

I don't think, having posted in this forum for years, there would be much support for UKIP because it's populist and right-wing and most of us here seem to be broadly left-of-centre and wary of populism and other movements where people get swept up in emotion and part company with reality and evidence. Gender ideology would be one of those populist movements. GC women seem to me to be rational and evidence and science-based.

I don't think humans as a species are particularly rational @pattihews 😁

There is no way of knowing what would have happened with UKIP but I think it is easy for people to look the other way when it comes to issues that don't directly affect them when a party aligns with your views on something that does and most political parties know this and will exploit it.

BlackForestCake · 13/10/2022 13:13

Right socially to me suggests in favour of marriage, patriotism, a bit of discipline never did young people any harm, on balance the empire was a good thing, etc. etc. So not for me.

Bosky · 13/10/2022 13:16

There are going to be a lot of disaffected voters come the next election and I worry that small far right parties with populist policies are poised with take advantage and will be bankrolled to do so.

IMHO I would rather that a small centrist party like the SDP, however imperfect, benefited. However, they have been doing astonishingly poorly in by-elections, despite standing some very articulate, personable, local candidates and having "popular" policies.

I think that to get off the starting blocks they are going to need either a massive surge in membership or some wealthy supporters to throw a load of cash at them.

As well as being poor as church mice they haven't got a putative "Unique Selling Point", like the "Women's Equality Party" (small print: "Anyone who calls themselves a woman is a woman - yay!!") or the "Green Party" (fondly imagined to be focussed on environmental issues but apparently more concerned about absolving Drag Queens from having to undergo the outrageous indignity of DBS checks before working with children).

The SDP "TRANSGENDER & BIOLOGICAL SEX-BASED RIGHTS" policy is going to appeal to disaffected voters who do have a clue what is going on but still a lot of people don't - and most won't have heard of the SDP either until a flier drops through their letter box.

Also Rod Liddle needs keeping on a very short leash!

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 13/10/2022 16:56

That's really intriguing. Thank you. I am considering joining but looking at the seats they have previously fielded candidates in, I feel very far away from their centre of activity. If all the Gender-critical politically homeless people joined them, I wonder what would happen? Would they get bigger than the LibDems?

Bosky · 13/10/2022 20:40

FaazoHuyzeoSix · 13/10/2022 16:56

That's really intriguing. Thank you. I am considering joining but looking at the seats they have previously fielded candidates in, I feel very far away from their centre of activity. If all the Gender-critical politically homeless people joined them, I wonder what would happen? Would they get bigger than the LibDems?

There are several earlier threads about the SDP, at least some of which give more info about the history and background (I am not including links to threads where the replies confused the SDP with the Lib Dems and/or the SNP 🙃):

SDP, sex-based rights, next election
17/01/2022
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4455978-SDP-sex-based-rights-next-election

SDP...thinking of joining given stance on women's rights. anyone else?
30/09/2021
www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/4362504-SDP-thinking-of-joining-given-stance-on-womens-rights-anyone-else

SDP - is this the party for me?
27/09/2021
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4359938-sdp-is-this-the-party-for-me

The SDP are left wing and against self ID
19/06/2021
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4274695-The-SDP-are-left-wing-and-against-self-ID

SDP policies on transgender and biological sex rights
02/07/2020
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3956172-SDP-policies-on-transgender-and-biological-sex-rights

Bosky · 18/10/2022 17:23

They are doing better recently than I realised!

The SDP is the anti-futility party
Rod Liddle
The Spectator - 15 October 2022

We have recently evicted a Labour councillor from Middleton in Leeds, a seat which they had never previously lost. The SDP won (in a seat consisting of about 20,000 voters) with more votes than all of the other candidates combined, a victory occasioned by our candidate, Wayne Dixon, putting aside his sense of futility for five years and persuading people. In the end, when the Middleton voters put aside their sense of futility, they did so en masse and suddenly discovered it had not been futile after all.

The defeated candidate was young and middle-class and he was not terribly gracious at the count, bless him. Throughout the campaign Wayne had to put up with the usual barrage of mud-slinging, defamation and bullying from the Labour party, beginning of course with the accusation that he was ‘racist’, with not the slightest shred of evidence and despite the fact that Wayne is at least partly from Traveller stock. Their hatred had no bounds, because they knew that the game was up – and now the good people of Middleton have a white working--class bloke who knows how to define the word ‘woman’ representing them – which I daresay the left will think is regressive and beyond the pale, but which makes him truly representative of the area.

Shortly after this win, a councillor in Derbyshire defected to the SDP from the Tories because – for reasons which you may well be beginning to comprehend – he found his party absurd. More recently a fairly prominent Conservative donor has decided that it would be slightly less futile to bung the SDP some dosh than it would be to carry on giving it to the complacent and arrogant Tories. These are small victories, sure – but they have a significance. We would of course benefit from proportional representation, but even without it we will continue to chip away at the walls of futility until futility gives up the ghost.

The conference was well attended and featured excellent speeches from the likes of Joanna Williams, Peter Whittle and a charming and benevolent John Cleese – the latter a nice twist, because at last year’s conference, Lionel Shriver had compared us to the People’s Front of Judaea: another intimation of futility, but one which was met with surprisingly good humour.

One of our problems is that we are a proper party with a comprehensive set of policies which have evolved over the years, rather than being a transient phenomenon like Reform or Reclaim or Regurgitate, what-ever, which can make up policy on the hoof and doesn’t care if it makes not the slightest bit of sense. We are the only mainstream party which doesn’t bob down on to one knee in a spasm of hyperliberal self-abnegation and which knows that it is unequivocally wrong for men who wish to define themselves as women to insist, under the law, that the rest of us have to define them thus as well. It’s a fiver to join.

(The rest of the article he is rambling on about food!)

Fingers crossed this link works:
12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fthe-sdp-is-the-antifutility-party

PomegranateOfPersephone · 19/10/2022 17:39

Thanks Bosky, that does sound more hopeful than I imagined.

Mezmer · 05/03/2023 09:21

Just wanted to resurrect this old thread as came across SDP this morning and have been looking at their website with great interest. I think I may have found a political home at last. They seem to have their feet on the ground when it comes to the TR debate, to promote meritocracy but greater wealth distribution, a sensible attitude to immigration and aren’t hating on Leave voters.

Am I missing something? Sounds too good to be true.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 05/03/2023 12:52

The catch is that you’ll be lucky if you have an SDP candidate to vote for in your area.

I find myself more aligned with more of their policies than is the case for any other political party.

I have stopped voting for now as there are no local candidates I can vote for in good conscience and I am in a Tory safe seat anyway so my vote won’t make a difference to anything much.

pieceofpasta · 05/03/2023 13:43

virginrivieras · 12/10/2022 22:00

I was all for this (also saw John Cleese mentioning them) but then spotted that a certain rape apologist was prominently featured in their website…. Richard Dawkins doesn’t inspire great confidence frankly! He appears to hate women!

What's that about? Have I missed something about Dawkins? I thought he was pro women's rights and safety etc.

Forester1 · 05/03/2023 13:48

I didn’t know they still existed until I saw this thread. Have just scanned their policies and would consider voting for them.

UWhatNow · 05/03/2023 13:57

oldwomanwhoruns · 13/10/2022 07:58

I don't think that we can really get out of this mire until we repeal the GRA.
The insanity of the "live as a woman" bit of the law is such an insult to us women that the GRA just has to go.
So no, the SDP doesn't do it for me.

Oh yes 100% Nobody in mainstream politics ever really discusses this gem do they? It’s so embedded in the rhetoric that nobody sees it for the complete pile of horse shit it is. It basically means ‘wearing a dress’ ffs.

Tabasco007 · 05/03/2023 14:33

Forester1 · 05/03/2023 13:48

I didn’t know they still existed until I saw this thread. Have just scanned their policies and would consider voting for them.

I came across them a couple of years ago, they seem to talk a lot of sense to me!

Tabasco007 · 05/03/2023 14:35

Mezmer · 05/03/2023 09:21

Just wanted to resurrect this old thread as came across SDP this morning and have been looking at their website with great interest. I think I may have found a political home at last. They seem to have their feet on the ground when it comes to the TR debate, to promote meritocracy but greater wealth distribution, a sensible attitude to immigration and aren’t hating on Leave voters.

Am I missing something? Sounds too good to be true.

I think they ought have campaigned for leave, might have got that wrong, and to be honest, I'm sooo over the Brexit debate.

Boomboom22 · 05/03/2023 14:40

The left really need a party for the wc and labour doesn't represent them. This could be the break sdp have wanted for ages.

PinkFrogss · 05/03/2023 15:10

Mezmer · 05/03/2023 09:21

Just wanted to resurrect this old thread as came across SDP this morning and have been looking at their website with great interest. I think I may have found a political home at last. They seem to have their feet on the ground when it comes to the TR debate, to promote meritocracy but greater wealth distribution, a sensible attitude to immigration and aren’t hating on Leave voters.

Am I missing something? Sounds too good to be true.

Unfortunately (to me) they are too good to be true.
some things I have concerns about are:
Prioritisation of married couples for social housing Withdrawing from the UN’s refugee convention
Stopping asylum claims from those who enter the UK
Teaching Britains “net positive” contribution to world history (according to who Confused)

I suppose there’ll never be a party that someone would 100% agree with every single one of their policies. I can see why they would appeal to a single issue voter, I just can’t afford to be one.

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