The SDP are left wing and against self ID

[thaigreen]

I don’t normally post but am gender critical and spend a lot of time reading here. I know many left leaning gender critical women are looking for a party to vote for and I’ve not seen the SDP mentioned. Their policies look promising. Any views?

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Thanks for posting, OP. I had heard of this, on Mumsnet FWR of course! We haven’t had any SDP candidates to vote for up till now, but they’ll have my vote if they stand.

The SDP do get occasional mentions but have yet to create a huge response. I am very encouraged by their existence and their stance on a lot of issues. Sadly no evidence of them round my way yet.

I may donate to them, but still think until they're getting lots of candidates in countrywide it's not really going to do much.

I think the SDP (Mark 2) are very keen on Brexit - which might be a barrier for some. I wouldn't call them left wing.

I think the SDP (Mark 2) are very keen on Brexit - which might be a barrier for some.

Um, I think that's already happened. If you're looking for a rejoin-the-EU party, I'm not sure any are campaigning on that, are they?

I wouldn't call them left wing.

That's nice. Why, specifically? Being pro-Brexit isn't sufficient, as there I know there are quite a few left-wing anti-EU people... Overall they seem pretty moderate-left on policy overall. Sure they wouldn't be "left" if they were a wing of the Labour party, but nationally, yes.

(Personally I don't think left-vs-right is important at this point - we should be worrying about liberal-vs-illiberal).

We need to move away from the identity politics of left and right. That's partly how the greens, labour and lib Dems have been thoroughly captured.
It's this unthinking acceptance of anything not mainstream.
I actually cringe at how virtue signally I used to be in elections. I dismissed older people's views as gammon without listening to their concerns.I would have liked to remain and voted as such, but it's happened now. We need to stop picking sides and start picking on policy. Politics isn't a football match.

I wouldn't call them left wing, just as a matter of fact - they define themselves as being in the centre "a patriotic, economically left-leaning, and culturally traditional political party."

You're right that Brexit isn't pure left-right, but in SDP case maps to other issues, in particular immigration. Just mentioned it might be a barrier for some.

they define themselves as being in the centre "a patriotic, economically left-leaning, and culturally traditional political party."

I'd agree with their own description. I'd say I was left of center but I think they have some good ideas. I'd like to see some of their plans coated to make sure they aren't indulging in magical thinking but I could certainly see myself voting for them.

Costed not coated ffs

Thanks for the replies. I am considering joining. I voted remain, but women’s rights are my absolute priority and I’ve had enough of being politically homeless.

I didn't enjoy spoiling my vote in May so I'm watching them and, if they start fielding more candidates round here, I might do more than just watch.

I voted remain but that ship has well and truly sailed.

I’d vote for for the SDP if they stood in my area.

I very much like that they are left of centre economically but not into authoritarian and divisive identity politics.

I like the emphasis on family and community, the very things which queer theory seeks to destroy.

I hope that they would prioritise UK agriculture and human rights and workers rights, high environmental and animal welfare standards in any trade deals. Seems crazy that we are now expecting to import food from the other side of the world.

Obviously I particularly value that they recognise the importance of sex based rights and that sex matters. The only political party to explicitly do do I think, apart from perhaps the Communist Party.

I am attracted to them but do have some misgivings. They say
'We must be one – irrespective of race, gender, sexual orientation or creed and we must engage with fellow citizens as equals. We reject the current obsession with grievance and identity which divides our society into hostile and opposing camps. We favour strengthening the common bonds which unite us and, in so doing, re-enforcing communitarian impulses in public life.' and
'We believe ‘fraternity vs division’ to be a key watershed question in all Western societies. Fraternity must prevail.'

I can't see anything specifically addressing women's rights or violence against women but they do focus on the family. I want a chance to interrogate their stance a bit more. What do they mean by 'socially conservative'?

Good points Imnobody4.

Also
sdp.org.uk/people/
Only one woman to 7 men. The podcasts they've done are again mainly with men. Wonder if they'll turn up on GB news.
I'd still seriously consider them but worry they'd only take votes from the Tories and let Lab/Lib in which at the moment is my greatest fear.

Thanks for this thread.

I too am politically homeless as I can't vote for any party that disregards the voices of 50% of the population on their own rights.
I have been so down about it.

I'm up for researching and this is a great place to start.

@PlonitbatPlonit

I wouldn't call them left wing, just as a matter of fact - they define themselves as being in the centre "a patriotic, economically left-leaning, and culturally traditional political party."

You're right that Brexit isn't pure left-right, but in SDP case maps to other issues, in particular immigration. Just mentioned it might be a barrier for some.

No, they're not left wing in the generally understood sense.

But they advocate nationalising rail and utilities, and a (probably, on balance) slightly more progressive tax system, within a balanced mixed economy. So about as left wing or more than the Blairite wing of the Labour party, who will probably determine policy going into the next election under Starmer.

I'd seriously consider voting for an SDP candidate if one stood locally.

Will have a closer look but on first glance it looks like it would fit both economically Tory DH and Green me.

This talk with Emma Webb really impressed me. A political party publicly discussing things in such depth. Well perhaps it is easier for small parties to do it…

sdp.org.uk/sdptalk/

“You find out where the power exists when you find out who has to give way to it” (obviously that would be women in my opinion) stood out for me.

The point that Emma made about how democracy is threatened when every area of life becomes politicised really resonated with me too. They referred to football and knitting was mentioned in passing although I am not sure if they are actually aware of the ongoing purity spirals in the yarn crafts world, the attacks on Tanis Gray and of course the removal of Jess de Wahls work from the Royal Academy only happened in the past week or so. It has been going on for longer though, I recently learned here on mumsnet about the Kate Davies affair. You only have to look at the ravelry homepage which is currently displaying poppers and someone dressed in a “pup” costume to see an example of that politicisation.

Jess de Wahls experienced life in East Germany and this talk touched on how many who have experienced life under such regimes are often quick to recognise the totalitarian nature of the times, warning us that they have seen before a zeitgeist like the one we are now subject to and it didn’t end well for anyone.

The religious nature of the current puritanical trend is also highlighted.

Anyway I recommend a listen, it is another interesting perspective on what is going on in society with the silencing of opinions through threats of isolation and unemployability and I am so glad that there are people having such conversations.

Their overall statement of principles is here:

sdp.org.uk/new-declaration/

A lot of stuff about basically combining social conservatism with centre-left economics. Would probably appeal to many here. Personally I get nervous when politicians start prattling on about family values and the like; I don't really see my choice to have children as giving me any right to special consideration over anyone else, and I'd want to see specifics about things like gay rights.

They stood 20 candidates in the last GE and got a total of 3,295 votes across the country. So any vote for them would be a protest vote at best, and probably not a very loud one.

‘I don't really see my choice to have children as giving me any right to special consideration over anyone else.’

It is mostly about children though rather than you. The rights of the child are paramount, so a household with children in it will get more consideration than one without.

The rights of mother of child are also in the declaration of human rights, so does get extra consideration.

There was discussion about them on the threads about the London Mayoral Elections, particularly their support of women's sex based rights.

but their candidate got so few votes in the actual election I suspect it was only mumsnetters who voted for him as they had zero publicity in the run up to the election.

Smaller parties are at such a disadvantage because they get so little air time.

And even if they did I doubt women's rights would be a question that any reporter would bother with.

@LibertyMole

‘I don't really see my choice to have children as giving me any right to special consideration over anyone else.’

It is mostly about children though rather than you. The rights of the child are paramount, so a household with children in it will get more consideration than one without.

The rights of mother of child are also in the declaration of human rights, so does get extra consideration.

sdp.org.uk/policies/the-family/

The tax and benefits system shall offer greater protection and support for family life. Couples raising children together (comprising a basic rate tax payer and a non tax payer) will benefit from full sharing of tax allowances.

OK. That's the sort of thing you mean.

The fundamental aim of national housing policy shall be to ensure that young people seeking to start a family and have children will be able to find a suitable, affordable home in which to do so.

IOW married straight people get priority for housing over single people, gay people or just those with less "traditional" lifestyles. (Note this is not about protecting already-existant children, like the reasonable priority that mothers with children currently get. It's giving priority to people just for having the INTENTION to have children).

Government policy in all domains will be subject to the basic test as to whether it is supportive of the family as the fundamental foundation of society.

Hmm. That sounds like politic-speak for opposition to section 21, same sex marriage etc. Would be interested to see any statements they released about such issues.

But they don't sound like the party for me.

I would very much like more support for families: particularly mothers (e.g. more health visitors, children's centres reopening again because a lot shut down due to cuts. More support to help mother fleeing domestic abuse from husbands so they can live with their somewhere nice when they escape. Increased mental health support for children, a provision of support for parents / carers for children with severe MH needs. More support for single mothers (and indeed single fathers).