I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

Probably solely sex segregated. I don't think it makes sense to set up facilities according to two characteristics which only a percentage of the population share. Third spaces might be ideal but I know that disabled facilities are very poor and cater for only some disabled people so if there were space for more than just male, female and basic disabled loos, it should be used to improve disabled facilities such that they cater for more people.

My daughter had a phase of being "trans". I told her that she was welcome to use the mens toilets, funnily enough she was grossed out at the mens toilets and rapidly changed her mind. What are your thoughts on that OP?

Actually OP, would you use the mens toilets?

There is no truth in gender identity. It is a fantasy like the emperor’s new clothes.

This is what was always intended, what most people think should be the case, and what is currently the case except for a small group of people who think that because of their special identities the rules don't apply to them.

OP, you mention being menopausal and experiencing health issues (being in pain). Do you not think that these two fundamental things may be playing a big part on how you feel about yourself? However much you deny your gender defining you, biologically and scientifically during the menopause, there are big changes both physically and mentally in your body. It sounds like you’ve gone down this rabbit hole and are trying to label yourself based purely on what ideology drivel is on the internet. Personally it sounds to me that you have just lost your identity in general, which has no bearing on what sex you are.

Used unisex loos in a brand new Tim Horton's yesterday. They were large enough, fully enclosed, plenty of white noise (you're not going to hear anyone else and they won't hear you).

Thought they were done well.

You are female. Use the women's loos. It should be that easy.

But, as we all know, transmen tend to have a lot more medical and surgical interventions, go to vocal coaches etc, do all they can to appear more masculine, male. And they often 'pass' very convincingly. So they would not be welcomed in a female facility, they would trigger the same thoughts and feelings as a man would.

I see this at work. We asked our client base about a transman joining the groups and there was a lot of discussion. One transman joined the group and left quickly. The visible recoil from the other women in the session was visible, the anxiety levels palpable and, even after apologies, nobody was comfortable. So he went off to another session, where the staff have specific training in supporting trans individuals.

As far as I can work through in my head, this is the obvious consequence of 'othering' yourself so much. Sometimes you find yourself on the outside more than you wanted.

But as you @Whatiswrongwithmyknee sound as though you are not trans, simply not gender conforming (like so many of us), use female facilities. Unless you choose to mask yourself your voice, general demeanour, gait etc, would not say 'male' and any mistakes would be easily remedied.

According to Stonewall I am trans. I don't self identify as such.

The charge against gender woo woo has been lead by menopausal women. We've lived through all the crap misogyny and the patriarchy has to throw at us. And the reality of our biology has been part of our lives for a long time. With very few fucks left to give for biology deniers when dealing with the impact of the menopause on our lives, our relationships and our jobs.

I don't give a shiny shit about some twenty something eejit who has no idea why sex-based rights are so important for women. Particularly if they are a bloke.

To quote Kellie-Jay Keen their mum is probably a terf.

Some shithead the other day said they don't know the difference between their mum and Izzard because they've never seen the genitals of either. While I accept their Mum might have had a c-section, but if she didn't, you damn well saw them when you were born.

According to Stonewall I am trans. I don't self identify as such.

We all are according to their grift. That's their point.

You have a choice. You can enslave yourself to the search for the right label or you can live and a relatively unremarkable female who doesn't conform to social stereotypes of 'feminine'. Have relationships, sex with whomever you choose, or don't. Wear the clothes you want, haircut you like, make up or not, whatever floats your boat.

I can guarantee that you will look, feel and act no differently to many of the rest of us females.

Don't let Stonewall's grift get to you. Just accept your personality and life choices.

This 100%. Anything else boils down to gender stereotyping. Something women have been fighting for years. Ironically in an age where “just be yourself” is shouted from every rooftop there’s actually little room to be an individual

There have been less and less public toilets generally and I completely agree with the poster who brought up the campaign for changing spaces. Most disabled toilets are nowhere near big enough especially if the person using it needs 2 people to assist them as well.
I agree with the OP being guilty of naval gazing. Feeling like a woman is however you feel if you have a woman's body. It does not stop us doing anything we wish to do. I've always bought men's shoes as they are actually made in decent widths. Men's clothes are also comfier and often built more ruggedly (warmer) :) I am definitely all woman despite this 'non conforming' to some set of nonsense someone made up on a website somewhere. Just use the Ladies (although I have an issue with that word and its connotations)

Agreed. Utter unadulterated bollocks. Firstly, DSDs account for 0.018% of the population and an even smaller number of these have ambiguous genitalia. There is no higher incidence of trans in the DSD population than in the general population. You said "many" people, and this is blatant nonsense. If there's a hormonal difference its because of exogenous cross sex synthetic hormones and not because of an intrinsic difference. I add yet again that people suffering DSDs are STiLL EITHER male or female and not some nebulous third sex. DSDs are sex specific and if anything they PROVE the sexual binary. The stuff you talk about is dangerously akin to the pink vs blue brain theory which was debunked decades ago. I sincerely hope you really aren't a gender worker as you claim, because you are talking absolute mince. Please don't pass off this unsubstantiated crap as fact, especially to vulnerable children.

Wherever you feel most comfortable. No loos are single-sex spaces under the definition of the EA2010.

The other problem with third spaces is that some trans at least say it makes them feel they are not accepted as the gender they identify as. That they are ‘other’ as a gender not fully male or female.

Does anyone ever actually feel comfortable in a public toilet?

😁

Least uncomfortable perhaps!

Theres scope for them to be so under the valid exceptions. Whereas there's certainly no such thing as a 'single gender' loo.

Anyway. The one many women feel most comfortable in is 'the one with no males other than very small boys'.

I think you are missing the point. Clearly Stonewall is a croc of shit. I want people who support their ideology to tell me how they think it actually works.

Given that most people do not have a gender identity I can't get my head round why a TW is happy to share facilities with people who don't have the same body type as theirs and do not share their identity, but can't share facilities with people who do have the same body type but do not share their identity.

There are lots of trans supporters on this site. It's interesting which questions they choose to ignore.

And afaik the whole point of this thread is that now loos are supposedly not straightforwardly segregated by sex, the OP isn't comfortable anywhere.

You know what - no one really cares about or where you fit in the worldview!

Does it is only matter where TW fit?

If you really can't get your female head around why a male is happy to share facilities with people who are female but can't share facilities with males then you need to read on,

You are asking your questions in the wrong place. Go and say to Stonewall:
"Hey stonewall. I don't believe in gender identity but I do believe sex matters. . So where do I fit in your scheme."

I think you are saying you are 'trans' because you don't have a female identity. But you don't have a 'female identity, because you don't buy into the notion of gender identity.
And they would tell you -I imagine - you don't fit in our scheme as you don't believe in gender identity.

The fact you don't fit isn't a failure of our belief system. You are judging it by standards external to it's own logic.

(Also probably the fact you don't believe in gender identity but do believe that sex is relevant probably makes you transphobic).