Men of the far right and the women's movement

[SapphosRock]

Excellent article from Jean Hatchett about the recent fascism debate.

https://thecritic.co.uk/men-of-the-far-right-and-the-womens-movement/

This bit really struck me:

On one side of the fence are aggressive men screaming “fascist” at women who are clearly not. On the other side, skulking in the shadows, beneath the banners of women, are men who clearly are.

The same self-righteous people who have given the fringe organisations and individuals they deplore more free publicity than they could have hoped for in a million years.

I seriously doubt that if "extremists, real extremists" turned up at every public GC event, such as Bindel's speech at Nottingham, it would be in order to "divide and conquer". More likely to hang on the coat tails of GC women, try to recruit to their cause (and they will be rebuffed with a flea in their ear by the majority leftie-liberal-centrist women at the event) but they will win anyway by garnering yet more publicity. (Thank you again, socialist feminists, for your staggering lack of political nouse!)

Unless you mean to give the pathetic "Antifa" mob a kicking? That is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility - and would put an end to the entirely empowering grassroots events that KJK has been running so successfully. Which is all that those socialist feminists desire: for KJK to fail, because if they can't win this battle then nobody else can be allowed to.

All this for what? For their dream that they will not only be able to turn around the Labour Party but will also be able to offer up their trophy of a GC win to Labour, so that Labour can brandish it at a grateful electorate. Eddie Izzard will have seen which way the wind was blowing, rejected the option being on an All Women Shortlist, and be campaigning to win a safe seat "identifying" as a man - in a frock. And they will lap it up - dear old Eddie, they will be fighting to carry water and write glowing articles.

Fight your battle within the Labour Party, sisters, it is a worthy cause. Just stop trying to put the kibosh on women who are organising at grassroots level and having success doing so - in the public square and in swaying public opinion.

Jean says:
"Keep your eyes peeled, women. This movement is not for rent to fascist men. This is our opportunity to follow our Olympian weightlifting sisters and say, “No, thank you.”

I look forward to seeing the live stream of the next (sorry, first) public space, open mic event that Jean organises and compères - with her "eyes peeled".

Fashy the Pig could still be useful here on MN.

Jean loves stirring the old drama pot eh? She never seems to tire of it.

She's not the only one.

True.

Although I like my terminology to be specific so we really need a pig that can snuffle out Left-Wing-Authoritarianism, eg Antifa & the posters who keep popping up to tell us that we don’t need freedom of speech and should stop saying we do because it’s making them look bad in front of their balaclava clad, Antifa-fash mate (who they sit next to at CLP meetings).

So. Two pigs. Right wing pig and Left wing pig.... Who are the fascists again? Who are the authoritarians?

It is like with domestic abuse victims. They are convinced their comrades really love them despite the repeated punches to the face and the public humiliation - not even let through the door at this year's Convention- and are hitting out at the wrong targets - rather predictably other women.

Just what I was thinking @mirax , getting a real domestic abuse victim dynamic with this situation: lashing out at other women saying 'he's a complete bastard, take the kids and run' with 'no, it was my fault for looking at that bloke, if I don't that that in future he'll respect me and won't batter me again, and you're just jealous 'cos nobody ever loved you the way he loves me'. (Sorry, above is practically my mother verbatim for many years, in case anyone takes this as lack of sympathy/understanding/compassion).

The left is handing this whole issue over to the right, here, in the States, in Europe, and then call us right wing for working with the only people who are actually listening to what women are saying.

The left needs to get their shit together if they want the moderates to support them, rather than lecture us on who we hang out with.

And sadly, I'm starting to lose respect for those left-wing women who continue with this line of attack - it's their issue with Labour party. I don't care. Don't taint GC movement with these batshit ideological purity tests beloved of the left, sort your own fucking party out before you call anyone else a fascist.

I wonder if this is part of the problem.

When victimhood is your currency, someone who comes along selling merchandise, flashing their manicure and blow dry and claiming they never lose, must be a bit of a blow.

She has said before how lucky she is to be in a position to do all this. Someone acknowledging that their privilege gives them agency, isn't really going to give a shiny shit when you try to use that privilege against them.

You're right Bernard. Being told she wasn't a proper feminist didn't bother her, the pretend alliances don't bother her, and neither does pointing out her privilege.

There's nothing in the Arsenal, and that's got to smart.

I saw on a Facebook post earlier someone challenging one of the Jean Hatchett headgirl clique to have a showdown debate with Posie Parker.
This would be very interesting. I am sure Posie would be up for it, but I suspect that this particular far-left woman would be far too intimidated and will make up an excuse of not wanting to 'talk to the far right'. I am watching that dialogue with interest. (Wondering when the woman daring to question the leftie will be blocked).

Posie could perhaps make a statement saying she doesn't affiliate herself with that Oak group. Personally I would. But it's her choice. She's open and honest about saying she wants to make money. Why not?
I would rather buy merch that's a bit more subtle and individual, like Lily Maynard's wonderful clothes. But that's my choice and I don't get why women want to police other women's spending choices.

Dozens of women are getting stuck in and being extremely hateful to the point of it becoming a single issue for them. Which is steeped in irony.

I think that there are some relevant points the Helen Joyce has written about in her latest article on the topic.

And when I read her takes and DJ Lippy's reference to the historical split, I begin to get a clearer picture.

Some posters are here saying:

'We may or may not always agree with any feminist but we are determined to make sure they all appreciated for their good efforts. However, we feel that this demand on one woman to denounce groups who are amplifying women's voices for their own gains is hypocritical considering the type of event and that NO other prominent woman having the same style of event is denounced in the same way, so let's see some practical solutions suggested rather than weak 'but it needs to be done' pleas while pointing fingers slyly or even overtly abusing that woman.'

are being painted as 'Posie's gang' or 'worshippers'.

Some posters are ok to ignore the slyness of some of these articles or to ignore the plain to see bullying nature of some of the people who are writing 'sin lists' on websites to be seen as keeping out of it or remaining righteous or what ever reason. The actions and motivations of the feminists, even those faintly or slyly vilifying KJK are being ignored. But it is ok to ignore these because of a form of 'moral license' or something similar, that Helen Joyce described today.

I still have yet to get a more clearer picture than 'this person - good' vs 'this person -bad' from some posters, but maybe we will get there.

I wonder how long it will take before they are able to step back enough to survey the ashes of all they have burned to the ground in their single minded pursuit of Posie?

I wouldn’t survive one of their purity spirals, so I’m certainly not going to risk being torn apart by them, much easier to avoid instead.

I’ve just quietly muted the few I’m Facebook connected to and will likely only donate small amounts to individual crowd finders rather than give to an org.

And I used to be an elected officer for Momentum * locally, so crap knows what women outside of the left organising world are making of it all.

It all feels a bit cringe, as the kids say.

*yes, I know! Magical Hippy Grandpa and Li’l Owen the Sanctimonious Morph were once my BFFs. Cringe!

"and will likely only donate small amounts to individual crowd finders rather than give to an org."

Yes, ClogLady, although I'll keep on paying subs to Sex Matters because they are apolitical, they are driven, they and Legal Feminist get things done. (That's an understatement!).
This particular group of women also got stuck in to Maya, accusing her of reaping in the cash, her being at the SFW was a betrayal to the left and meant she was affiliated to the far right.
I know I'm waffling on but if I'm honest these left women sound like the kids at my daughter's school who shout down anyone who dares to question the BLM or trans narrative. Try to shame them by calling them bigots and racists, try to cancel them on tiktok and Insta by calling them transphobes. The exact same group (they call themselves lefties) who Chuck lesbians out of the school LGBT club because these poor girls don't want to date transboys.

When will they wake up and realise they're just playground bullies?

Late as usual, but I just wanted to Ask if instead of a Pig, could you train a domesticated zombie (me) instead. Then the Domesticated Zombie (me) or Domesticated Xombie (me) - which is what my phone wants to call it - could travel with and sniff out all the fascist.
it would be foolproof! On account of the DZ/DX (me) is a fascist herself and would immediately recognise a fellow sinner. 😇😇

I can be bought so easily, you wouldn’t believe it! Free travel, food and lodgings. Oh, and the Odd dodgy T-shirt. That would do me just fine.

I could also sniff out islamophobes. I am highly critical to Islam myself, to all religions actually - I don’t discriminate in my discrimination of religions. Despite being rather fond of, and friends with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Shinto-ists (? is that how…)
I could sniff out any -phobe.

just pick me!!!

I feel exactly the same.

Yes, I too am thankful for Maya and Helen Joyce and Legal Feminist.

lots of fantastic women around to stand in solidarity with, we can get by without the bullies.

Perhaps they’ll realise and apologise eventually.

turbonerd

What happens if your nose falls off? Isn't there a chance of that if you are a zombie?

Otherwise the offer sounds interesting....

I dunno, Turbs won’t all us ‘transphobes’ clog your pipes up?

Maybe you can recalibrate the meter so we don’t accidentally set the alarms off?

Fashy T shirts available in Poundland, I hear!

"Organising at grass roots level". 🤣
You put stickers (Posie's stickers!) on lampposts. You talk over each other at Speakers' Corner. You buy Posie's t shirts and wear them . No one cares.
Real feminists : women quietly working away day to day helping women escape dreadful fucking situations , helping women source food for their families that is becoming so hard under this horrible Tory government (you lot fucking voted for them most of you !).
Women researching what women need so that we can justify and evidence our aims and findings.
Women questioning why a wee girl in school looks scared or is withdrawn.
Naw but you lot have Speaker's Corner and PP ffs!
Have to dash , some of us have things to do !

Do enjoy icing that cake!

But once you have identified the sinners within the crowd polluting Real Feminism Like What Good Feminists Do without bothering and upsetting males, what exactly will happen next?

Are we talking close formation tutting?
Is Posie going to Glare at them?
A pen of some kind?
Removing them from the Christmas card list?
Defriending them on Fb?
Stakes and firewood?

Real feminists : women quietly working away day to day

Which is lovely, but you do need the actual political leverage to effectively apply pressure to politicians to actually take the necessary action.

Having all the research to "justify and evidence our aims and findings" is absolutely necessary, but it's far from sufficient.

We need to force politicians to actually give a shit. So raising the profile of the issue among the general public all across the political spectrum so politicians cannot escape the issue is also necessary, and Posie has been the single most effective campaigner doing this in the UK.

So the "real feminists" and the women's activists like Posie need each other.

Posie's not trying to stop them (you?) doing their thing - perhaps this could be reciprocal? [Rainbow optimism emoji...]

What you're saying is you need is a 'Real Feminist' T-shirt.

For all of us 'Unreal Feminists', I'm making a pizza, who wants what?

Definitely doesn’t need any more vinegar!

Oh fabulous!

Another rebuking! Another 'I am a 'real' feminist and care about 'real' feminist issues, yous are all just wannabes and superficial wannabes at that! And you 'talk over each other', wear disgraceful t-shirts, and sticker!'

Again, you are on an anonymous forum and you have made your very own deeply prejudicial views well known.

It is just you who here who has drawn the conclusion that posters are not actively involved in feminist actions in their everyday lives that are wider than this.

Remarkable isn't it? Just how deep your entrenched prejudice goes.... for someone who declared that Kellie Jay is 'meaningless to my life'. Perhaps there is a little too much protesting being done for that to be true.