Carly-May Kavanagh

[NitroNine]

There are rumours circulating on Twitter that Carly-May Kavanagh (the one who screams at babies: Daily Mail) has, despite her “apology” been suspended from the Labour Party. Presumably such a suspension would have an impact on her job as Lloyd Russell-Moyle‘s head of policy?

Apparently if she is suspended it [probably] won’t be made public. Given the reason for her [potential] suspension; if Labour actually do take action, you’d think they’d want to reassure people that they expect their members to uphold certain standards. I mean, “not screaming abuse at infants” is less upholding a standard than it is failing to trip over pebbles of basic decency…

Clearly one cannot put too much weight into Random Person Says Unevidenced Thing. However, it would be a foolish rumour to start without cause, so I thought it was worth starting a thread here to see if there are developments to follow.

Should Kavanagh face consequences for her behaviour it will be a watershed moment: Labour acknowledging women have rights all their own, including the rights to assemble & to speak on issues of concern to them, such as their need for single sex provisions.

If supporting free speech makes people fascist then I guess I'm a fascist. Oh well just another inaccurate label to add to the list, sigh.

Tatsuya Ishida the other day:

So, once you remove the smoke bombers, the baby shouters and the masked intimidators, you're only left with what? People who think lesbians have penises, that homosexuality is bigoted, and that women have no right to privacy from the opposite sex.

Welcome to Brighton.

QED standing up for women's rights is by definition bigoted and violent and comes from a position of power

But you have to redefine the words bigoted and violent and power into meaningless concepts disconnected from reality to get to that point. I get what you are saying, but people have responsibility to not believe demonstrably insane and untrue things. Racists and anti-semites and misogynists down the ages have believed demonstrably untrue things and have believed them to the extent of murdering people. They are responsible for their actions as they are responsible for not being able to think through the irrationality and anti-reality of their beliefs.

Saying, they are acting crazy as they genuinely believe crazy things does not erase their responsibility for believing crazy things.

Excellent thread by Terfasaurus.
twitter.com/terfasaurus/status/1573279211036573697?t=z1lIxni1zchOCEaUKPuM2g&s=19

Ends with this which could be worth watching
If anybody wants to hear more on this topic we will discuss it tonight on #WombView, discussing the #LesbianStrengh2022 march and #LetWomenSpeak event in Brighton, with those who were present at ground zero. Premier tonight at 8pm (BST) t.co/hzWach62qe

I assumed they were maternity dungarees - two of my clients wear them.

Welcome to Brighton.

😂

You have to laugh...

The prominent women who have done the most to support Trans Widows Voices include DJ Lippy (terfasaurus) via Make More Noise, Posie by being generally supportive, and Helen Joyce, by having us in her book. Also Dr Em who was in Brighton as well.

Make of that what you will.

Terfasauras is correct, the right were always going to get involved. I kept hoping the left would come to it's senses because I think the authoritarian right will be awful for every one but now it seems women are stuck between a rock and a hard place and we will be blamed whatever the outcome.

The left lost their minds, untethered themselves from reality and refused to listen to warnings. Finding ourselves here is one of my greatest frustrations, the inevitability of it was all so fucking obvious. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.

I do not disagree at all!

I think that one idea that might just save this country if someone could pull it off...

Start an organisation with the express intent of gaining as many members as possible and to interact with those members to create a manifesto of centrist and centre left policies that are supported by a majority in this country.

I would imagine that there are a lot of people who would be willing to sing up to things like higher NHS funding, slightly higher taxes for the rich, nationalisation of utilities companies who are failing or charging unaffordable amounts, etc etc.

One thing they could agree is that men cannot be women and that LGB people have rights.

Then, with a million members and a reasonable manifesto turn up to labour and say "we will join you if you kick out the authoritarians and misogynists and homophobes".

I can only assume that Starmer is only in thrall to the insane identity left of his party because there are a lot of them, and he doesn;t realise how many might jojn if labour were sane.

It is absolutely clear to me that the left used to be the "economic left" and that it is not the "identity left". The identity left focuses less than it should on economics, and renders the left unelectable. Which group of people does the existence of the identity left suit most? Rich people on the right.

So we can agree that our side are not a hive mind but are unable to extend that idea to the other?
Is there any evidence that CMK is an extremist outlier whose views are not shared by the rest of the group? Sappho only seems to have offered wishful thinking and her wife's view.

Yes. I quite agree. If the left are represented by people throwing bombs, screaming at and intimidating women who are talking about CSA, autism, are attacking rape victims, terrorising women for daring to meet in public, then in my view they are as bad as the far right. And this includes Labour, and I never thought I'd say that. Obviously this is an extremist faction, but Russell Moyle was on the front bench at one point, yes?

So we can agree that our side are not a hive mind but are unable to extend that idea to the other?

No. I don't believe that is what has been meant, although others can correct me it I am wrong here.

However, any person who attended that event in the park did so in an attempt to silence women. Why else would they choose to attend and protest? Did any choose to attend and just listen to the women?

Would any of those at the Standing for Women event choose to deliberately protest a rally of trans people meeting in the park to listen to trans people speak?

If you think they would? Why? What would it achieve?

Yes, but RIP the Libdems ...

So we can agree that our side are not a hive mind but are unable to extend that idea to the other?

I’d love to see some evidence of trans activists who question the party line. I’ve never seen one say “perhaps it’s inaccurate to call feminists fascists” or “perhaps believing biological sex is important isn’t bigoted”. I guess if they did say those things they would be turned on so those conversations never happen. It is easy to see (from this thread or other threads on mumsnet) that we are not a hive mind. Where is the evidence that this doesn’t apply to trans activists?

See, I now qualify 'trans activist' with extreme trans activist. Because it is the extreme ones who do this. There are trans activists that do want to find solutions that work for all.

I don't believe though that they would be attending a women's event and protesting though.

What makes me angry is that today the Conservatives have come up with a budget that could well crash the economy and will leave many people struggling just to survive. Meanwhile Carly spends her time making Labour unelectable Never have we needed a decent opposition more. The more Labour spout this BS the less likely we are to get rid of the worst govt ever. I have little sympathy for that reason.

Feel sorry for her? Nope, I do feel quite warm towards her though. She ripped open the discussion and showed the filthy, slimy mess in the centre of it to all the Be Kinders sitting on the fence. I feel more positive we can push this back than I have in years.

As Posie would say "wasn't she a gift?"

Wherever you are Carly, thank you, genuinely, from the bottom of my heart 💚🤍💜

Ok I take it back. She hasn't learned a thing.

See, I now qualify 'trans activist' with extreme trans activist. Because it is the extreme ones who do this. There are trans activists that do want to find solutions that work for all.

Where are these reasonable trans activists and what solutions are they suggesting? Don’t they just end up being called TERFs?

This ^

GC/Terves/Lesbian Feminists don’t protest at Trans Pride, we don’t counter protest at their rallys, we don’t try and drown them out when they are speaking (in fact, we’d welcome some properly organised public debates where each speakers has a designated amount of time followed by audience Q&A).

Team GC largely organise our own events (that TRAs try and shut down) or attend events that are supposed to include at least some of us (eg the L & the female B and Gay Pride) to highlight how ‘inclusion’ isn’t working very well for female people.

We haven’t tried to hijack trans orgs, we’ve gone off and formed the LGB Alliance. We haven’t said ‘no T without LGB’ when Trans people have organised new, additional, separate trans pride events)

The forced teaming and the attempt to stop opponents from meeting and speaking only goes one way.

it’s not us that are saying #nodebate and letting off smoke bombs.

They do get the same abusive treatment. We have seen that they do.

How do you know that’s what PP would have wanted, Sappho? Maybe she would have preferred to see women given the chance, for once, to meet and talk without being harassed and abused.

Saying that PP doesn’t shy away from ‘provocation’ suggests that women’s outspoken courage is the cause of aggression against them. Not true or fair.

KMC isn’t an ignorant child who never had the chance to learn. She has a BSc in Politics and International Relations, and a responsible job with an MP. I agree she seems to have swallowed the misogynist propaganda without a ripple of thought. But if studying politics at university (even if poorly taught) doesn’t give you a chance to understand politics, god knows what does.

I reserve my sympathy for those who face aggression, not the aggressors.

SDP might be worth a look, for anyone wanting a political org that’s soft left-ish whilst knowing what a woman is and valuing freedom of speech?

here’s the SDP page on Sex & Gender:

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

and their page on Academic Freedom:

sdp.org.uk/policies/charter-for-academic-freedom/