Carly-May Kavanagh

[NitroNine]

There are rumours circulating on Twitter that Carly-May Kavanagh (the one who screams at babies: Daily Mail) has, despite her “apology” been suspended from the Labour Party. Presumably such a suspension would have an impact on her job as Lloyd Russell-Moyle‘s head of policy?

Apparently if she is suspended it [probably] won’t be made public. Given the reason for her [potential] suspension; if Labour actually do take action, you’d think they’d want to reassure people that they expect their members to uphold certain standards. I mean, “not screaming abuse at infants” is less upholding a standard than it is failing to trip over pebbles of basic decency…

Clearly one cannot put too much weight into Random Person Says Unevidenced Thing. However, it would be a foolish rumour to start without cause, so I thought it was worth starting a thread here to see if there are developments to follow.

Should Kavanagh face consequences for her behaviour it will be a watershed moment: Labour acknowledging women have rights all their own, including the rights to assemble & to speak on issues of concern to them, such as their need for single sex provisions.

People are allowed to have opinions I don't share. My beliefs are protected and so are their beliefs. All good.

This is definitely not ‘dungareeeeee-img’.

Not All People in Lucy & Yak Dungarees Are Like That’

NAPILYDALT

bit clunky, but will have to do!

Welcome! ILIkeDungs (former lurker, first time poster

Here you go.

Start with Julie Bindel

thecritic.co.uk/end-womb-trafficking/

Or do you seriously think that 'donor conception' is all just loving friends and family donating eggs and that it has nothing to do with the same arguments as surrogacy.

Please tell your mate to start a page denouncing Julie Bindel.

You are here defending the potential exploitation of other women's bodies to provide eggs for 'fertility equality'

WTH?

I absolutely do not support surrogacy.

In the link I shared Posie Parker speaks out against donor conception and 'dislikes' IVF which is homophobic and anti lesbian.

This is such a great point. You don’t want to be one of those bad women, do you? (Subtext: the bad women are fair game.) You’re on the verge of standing up for the bad women, are you sure you’re not one of them? Men have been bullying women into compliance and obedience with that one forever, to the point where the implicit threat rarely needs to be spelled out any more.

Feminists should really be able to see through it.

(I note that historically there’s been a nasty class dimension to this.)

In the link I shared Posie Parker speaks out against donor conception and 'dislikes' IVF which is homophobic and anti lesbian.

Again I ask the question.

Do you honestly think that donor conception is only friends and families donating their eggs? That there is no financial or emotional coercion. And that donor's are not risking their lives to do this?

Because maybe Sappho, you should read more about how eggs are 'donated'. There are plenty of threads with some of the experiences of 'egg donors' on this very board.

In the link I shared Posie Parker speaks out against donor conception and 'dislikes' IVF which is homophobic and anti lesbian.
No it isn't. Disliking something that is something that some lesbians do, is not per se anti lesbian, any more than disliking surrogacy is homophobic against gay men (much as some gay men would like us to think it is).

From her point of view it will have felt on a par with the BNP holding a rally in central Brighton. She will only have heard or read that the SFW group are fascist Nazis. She won't have been exposed to the other side's views.

I know this is from the start of the thread but it says everything that is wrong with people who happily get shouty in the faces of those on the “other side” without really bothering to dive into the detail of why they hold those views.

I don’t have any sympathy for anyone making a stand without first using any critical thinking as to why. Actions have consequences.

This film is a good place to start. I had no idea how exploitative this industry was. It's shocking.

Oh. Did I just fall for a derail?

Sappho... I could sit here and say that I find KJK a bit smug sometimes. I can see how the singing and "I always win" could be incredibly annoying to some. I can see why some might have a different view of how close to get to people who are actual fascists. I can see that you might not like some of her tactics.

BUT surely, surely you can see she has done a lot of good, and even if all of your accusations on this thread are correct she is still one of the good ones?

I have learnt two things on this thread. Not to trust a word you say when it comes to facts. Not to give your opinions the benefit of the doubt - if they don't make sense at first glance I shall assume that is because they don't and move on.

Do you honestly think that donor conception is only friends and families donating their eggs? That there is no financial or emotional coercion. And that donor's are not risking their lives to do this?

Donor conception almost always refers to sperm donation which has no risk to the donor. Donor conceived children are generally conceived with the mother's egg and donor sperm. It is very common in Brighton, especially in the lesbian community.

Egg donation is much more rare. I would say about 1 or 2% of donor conceived children are from egg donation.

If PP has a problem with egg donation she should have specified that, as donor conception with donor sperm is the only way lesbian couples can conceive and her distaste for it appears to be homophobic.

donor sperm is the only way lesbian couples can conceive and her distaste for it appears to be homophobic.

So being anti surrogacy is homophobic against gay men by this logic?

@SapphosRock Most people haven't thought 'sperm donor', they really did not think PP was complaining about men wanking in a cup. Do you think you need to expand your laser focus on relating everything to your own situation?

You throw slurs about PP with abandon, without bothering to find out what the issue may be. Reminds you of someone?

Absolutely not because women going through pregnancy, giving birth and all the associated health and emotional risks is very different to a block wanking into a cup.

*bloke!

Can I suggest that we start two new threads?

One for a debate on KJK.

One for a debate on the rights and wrongs of various ways of helping couples where natural conception is not possible?

Really?

This is beneath even you, Sappho.

How about attending protests supporting women that are opposed to men in women's spaces.

No. Actually. I think you should admit that you are wrong here.

www.dcnetwork.org

Just because your group use the term to only mean a male wanking into a fucking cup, perhaps you should have done some actual research. Yes, there ARE some issues with male sperm donation when they donate too many times and end up with many children who have no idea they might be related.

But you immediately jumped to the conclusion that KJK was homophobic based on your mate’s prejudiced point of view and what your mate wrote.

You immediately were happy to join in demonising someone based on little critical evaluation it seems.

Now… shall we go through your Implied support of a group of males who the community felt reluctant to accuse for some reason? Did you actually read the tweets that Women’s place posted?

What did you find worth monstering KJK about with her comments also on Critical Race Theory?

Sometimes our mates, despite doing some awesome things for the community, have some fucking huge prejudices of their own.

So, maybe your mate should start that page on Julie Bindel.

If you cannot honestly see that page is a fucking disgraceful thing to do to someone who is also doing some good work, just differently to you and you disagree on some things, than I think you also have no moral high ground that you seem to think you have .

If it's donor conception and ivf she dislikes,* *it seems to me it's likely to be egg harvesting she's against. But ask her.

Brighton feminists must be in a difficult position in such a 'woke' city. I wish I could have heard them speak on the live stream. Any of the live streams.

Thanks for the welcome TheClogLady, I'd name change with NAPILYDALT if I hadn't just started out with ILikeDungs

Lesbians have also had babies via co parenting with a male friend.
No sex acts required and it’s not ‘donation’ because dad has contact. Plus all the usual additional routes to parenting eg adoption/step parenting a partner’s children from a previous relationship/fostering etc.

Just throwing that out there to hopefully quiet down some of the paranoia re: immediately assuming that anyone who has questions about gamete donation MUST be motivated by homophobia and is therefore against all lesbians and gay men raising babies in same sex (or single parent) relationships. It’s perfectly possible to be opposed to aspects of (or even all) reproductive technology without any homophobic motivation.

She said it on the video that is linked to the page, if someone else other than me actually bothered to follow the links and read what what being posted as 'evidence' of sinning.

She is against females potentially being exploited for their eggs.

Why the fuck would she be talking about males wanking into a cup being an issue?

And again, I ask. Do you, Sappho, think that the only egg donations are from friends and family and even then that there is no chance of emotional coercion?

Are you very comfortable to condemn Kellie Jay Keen for opposing the potential for exploiting women for their eggs now based on your mate's page?

For a process that can cause death from stroke, and all too often causes infertility in the person donating. FFS. Read some stories about the young women in the USA who are doing this to pay off their debts. It is not just 'financial' gain though. Do you honestly think that there is no coercion at play in fertility clinics to donate eggs?

Why the fuck would anyone think that she is against a male wanking into a cup, unless they are determined to have bad fucking faith interpretations because of their own prejudices?

FFS! The lack of critical thinking on this thread is awe inspiring.

Brighton feminists must be in a difficult position in such a 'woke' city. I wish I could have heard them speak on the live stream. Any of the live streams

We do have some awesome feminists here. Prof Kathleen Stock, Dr Jane Clare Jones, Helen Saxby. The WPUK events have been very popular here too.