Men in women's changing rooms

[Moggyd]

Just been into Marks and Spencer's changing rooms and there was a man sat outside the cubicle waiting for his partner. Right next to the big mirror where you come out and look. I didn't feel comfortable at all and wouldn't come out of the cubicle to show my friend the dress. I spoke to the member of staff and she said it was a recent change and men can go into the what was ladies changing rooms now because a few men have kicked off recently when refused entry. I feel pretty angry about this. Interestingly there was a sticker inside my friend's changing room as attached. Not put there by Marks. What do others think?

With evidence of this kind of man in a position of authority, M&S should reconsider its current policy of allowing men more access to non-consenting women.

Just the fact that she's now feeling rattled and uncomfortable? Anyway, it doesn't matter if you, or I or anyone else, doesn't understand why she felt that way. She had the right to be in a women-only space.

WTF.

For your information some women have no choice about who is helping to raise their children. My ex son in law is an abusive misogynistic who will undoubtedly try to pass on his vile attitude to his sons. My daughter has no choice about this because the very flawed family court system decided that it's how it should be. They are fairly young now, but how lives until they reach adulthood will be about trying to mitigate that damage as much as we can. It's soul destroying, but lets place the blame where it belongs please.

It's ironic that you are blaming women for this. It's always the woman's fault.

It's absolutely the case that some women have no choice but for their children to be subjected to misogynistic males.

On the other hand, there are also women on AIBU any day of the week talking about female relatives with deeply sexist ideas about male entitlement that they enforce on other female relatives, and there are plenty of women front and centre supporting the misogyny of TRA, which is in essence often male supremacism.

So yes, sadly, it has to be faced that women do have a hand in this.

That's as maybe, but I'm still very uncomfortable with placing the burden on the shoulders of women yet again. Abused women are given the job again and again and having to do all the work, while men get away with never having to change. The whole system of police, family courts and criminal courts is skewed towards women having to change their behaviour. Please, let's not do it on the feminist boards too.

And presumably she's got to undress again to change back into her own clothes. Shops don't generally allow you to wear the stuff you've bought to the checkout and then out of the shop. It makes removing the security tags tricky for a start.

Where can women shop safely in town then? A list would be useful!

Whatever the rules are like any lawful citizen I abide by them.
Live and let live as long as it is in the law of the land and laws vary country to country.

I despise Kangaroo courts etc and I am not happy with all of the OT PC stuff that goes on these days but if it is the law I respect it and if I'm really concerned I would raise my points via proper channels

Thanks

Hi @distracta , I set out below a comprehensive list for you:

[message intentionally left blank 🙄 ]

Don't give me "law of the land" / "kangaroo court" guff.

Keep out of women only spaces. No decent, upstanding man would do that. We see you.

Women. We need to get stickering to keep pervs out of our changing spaces. I buy these and put them in changing rooms and pub toilets mainly.

Buy them from www.adulthumanfemale.store/stickers (there's often a special deal buy 5 packs for price of 3)

and wildwomynworkshop.com/category-product/sticker/activist-sticker-packs/

So if a shoplifter 'kicks off' when they are challenged, do they just say 'that's ok, help yourself to what you want'?
That's not far from the truth. Shoplifters are rarely challenged these days.

Retail staff (aside from security guards) are advised not to physically try to stop shoplifters, for obvious reasons.

Before you fall over yourself educate yourself to the definition re "law" and then come back and apologise if you wish.
I stand by what I have said and not going to be bullied by a minority that shouts the loudest.

You’re the one in need of education. The Equality Act allows for single sex spaces. Partly for religious reasons, partly due to the protected characteristic of sex. It is explicit that even those meeting the protected characteristic of gender reassignment do not have the right to use single sex spaces for the opposite sex.

There is no law which supports communal changing rooms.

I was reading that M&S are likely to be hit hard in the recession as it’s middle market goods. It must be run by idiots to adopt these policies as the vast majority of its customers (as the vast majority of society) are people with pretty traditional views on this sort of thing, particularly women, who don’t want men around in their safe spaces. So as it’s traditional customers will no doubt have something else to put them off M&S then I can see the number of stores diminishing anyway.

PS and YOU are the minority! The majority of men (decent ones) wouldn't go where they are not wanted and now allowed.

"name change" for all to see mate, just check my history.
You are joking about knowing something about the law!
I've noted your contriubutions on this thread and on the whole, they are not nice.
I'll let you carry on but please don't forget the law of any land is the law and if the law allows something, then why not if you want to travel down that path.

My view is that all men should be allowed in women's spaces, other than those whose behaviour raises a safe-guarding red flag.

Obviously this means banning any man who wants to go into women's spaces from women's spaces, and only allowing in men who would never dream of eliminating women's comfort, privacy and safety and would point blank refuse to enter women's spaces even if someone said they were welcome.

THIS.

Absolutely this.

It's always seemed like the worst kind of sick joke that only men who are fundamentally not decent or trustworthy who would want to violate women's privacy, safety and dignity in this way, who are in our spaces!

I told two friends about M&S changing rooms being mixed sex and they both agreed that they wouldn’t use them moving forward

one said that it did explain why when she was last in marks and asked where the changing room was she was directed to the mens as it was closer…she’d probably be happier in there to be fair

Judging by some of the anti-M&S comments here - M&S is a business and if they felt customers were being lost due to changing room set up then they'd do something.

I see nothing wrong with it and if I'm not happy with something, I'd take my business to another shop.

Btw - my wife does not have a problem

(NB - I've changed my name a few times as unsure what is befitting my ordinary status)

I had this at m and s. I don’t know why they don’t just keep the men in a sofa outside the changing rooms like they used to

You don't see anything wrong in women and girls being made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe around (potentially predatory) men when they are getting changed and trying on bras?